@luluchops1
@bindelj
@adelewilliams
Dear
@adelewilliams
I was a founder of Stonewall. If
@bindelj
, a lesbian who has spent her adult life fighting for Women’s rights and against violence against women, is “at odds with your EDI strategy”. It might be the strategy that needs challenging rather than the lesbian.
@BluskyeAllison
This is a reminder to Stonewall not to betray its legacy of representing the whole lesbian and gay community and not to behave as an ideological organisation pushing a single view of our world with sanctions for being “the wrong kind of gay”. The point of equality is diversity
Diversity and inclusion are about difference. How I admire this woman. Her cool expression of opinion, the brilliance of her writing and her commitment to difference which is the core of our humanity.
"There were people on social media saying that my parents had died ... because I had refused to say 'trans women are women.'
There is a raging epidemic of violence against women ... and it's become unfashionable to talk about."
—
@ChimamandaReal
Dec. 2021
What you got wrong Carly-May was that you abused those who hold a different view in a way that was entirely inappropriate for someone who works for an MP. MPs represent their whole community. See my letter below to
@lloyd_rm
- your boss.
It is public knowledge that I have spoken at LGBAlliances conferences. The question is what have I said. Attempts to argue through guilt by association does not stand the test of evidenced discussion. If there was any evidence that LGBA is a hate group I would not have done so.
@EdinUniStaff
I am delighted and honoured to have been named Rector. I will do all I can to advance the university and its staff and students and fearlessness in the exchange of ideas
It was disgraceful. As we walked into the meeting these people yelled scum at lesbians and feminists who have been fighting for women’s rights for decades many of them. This is not solidarity or diversity. It is aggression our and simple
#WPUKLab19
I have NEVER seen a feminist - radical, GC or otherwise - hammer on the window while a trans meeting is in progress, or seen women attempt to destroy property like this. This is violent intimidation. All because some women want to talk about how proposed law changes affect them.
My issue with Stonewall is not WHAT they campaign on, but HOW. They reject the diversity of views on issues, they refuse to discuss, they seek to impose their narrow view rather than find good solutions for all. Dogma did not win us the progress we have.
It’s not that I am right or wrong. I certainly don’t have the answers. But I am totally certain that a small group of people trying to prevent discussion will not get us to good solutions. And most people are waking up to that. The centre now needs to isolate the extremes.
Cambridge students protested and walked out of a talk by Stonewall co-founder Simon Fanshawe, accusing him of being transphobic.
Simon: “They had a look of absolute entitled pleasure for walking out. The pleasure should be the discussion!”
@JuliaHB1
|
@SimonFanshawe
“The tragedy is not just that Stonewall’s refusal to engage damages the interests of trans people and of women. It betrays the charity’s remarkable legacy of change”. My piece in today’s Telegraph.
Just one question: can you define ‘non-binary’ And how is it different from being a gender non conforming man. Which by the way is the right we gay campaigners have been fighting for. To be different kinds of men....
P.s. I am at no stage just yet to eloquently speak at length about what it means to be non binary but I can’t wait for the day that I am. So for now I just want to be VISIBLE and open. If you have questions and are wondering what this all means I’ll try my best to explain...
Two things: great thread just reminding everyone (including the BBC-which I love) to stop assuming all gay people people think the same. And, increasingly, informed by many feminist friends’ thinking, I am more and more finding this kind of stereotyped drag deeply offensive.
Stop and think. Why will Ant and Dec dressing up in an exaggerated, stereotyped image of the idea of “woman” help anyone “LGBTQ”? In what way? And how will it help “LGBTQ children”? What is an LGBTQ child? 1/
What is distressing today is that some ONLY want to hear Keira Bell’s voice and others ONLY Elliot Page’s.True inclusion requires that we hear BOTH,include BOTH and find a way to balance the needs of each, allowing adults to make their decisions and also protecting young people.
@JJMacBride
@EdinUniStudents
Let me be absolutely clear.I do not and never have campaigned against the legitimacy of trans people.Please read what I have written.We need rigorous discussion on how we reach the best solutions for all.Just as we did for all those years in Stonewall which was pretty successful.
@JamesCantorPhD
@virpeds
I fought against the inclusion of PIE in gay politics in the 80’s and I will do it again and again. Fighting for same sex attracted equality should never never embrace paedophilia. Under any circumstances
@GinaGwenffrewi
Dear Dr Gwenffrewi, I stood fully expecting an election. On a platform of helping to create dialogue. See statement here
I am not a founder of LGBAlliance (that was two lesbians) But there is dialogue to be had. Please read what I have written
I may survive your disappointment.
We need a sensible discussion about these issues to reach good conclusions. JKR helps (listen to the recent podcast to hear her do that)
I stoped reading at the word “pink” Are we really going back to pink for girls and blue for boys? It’s what I have spent most of my life fighting against. What about really gender non conforming and being a different type of boy or girl????
Let me make it quite clear. You approached me for an interview. I declined. That is as far as our “corespondence” went. I am not an LGBA founder nor a representative. Trying to drag me into a spat you are having with them is simply untrustworthy journalism. Please desist.
@ALLIANCELGB
Because this is a straightforward and serious lie () it needs a full retraction and apology from you.
Can
@SimonFanshawe
please give permission for me to publish in full the email correspondence between us both.
This is an amazing heartfelt, lived thread of experience. Alice’s narrative needs to be respected and not met with slogans and assertion. There IS a debate about the complexity of making trans rights and responsibilities consistent with women’s hard fought rights. Alice’s voice.
1/ I’m an ordinary wee Glesga granny. I’m not a radical feminist. I’m not an academic or an intellectual. I’m not a lesbian. I’m not an activist. I don’t hate trans people. I don’t hate homosexuals. I don’t hate men. In fact, I don’t hate anyone.What I DO hate is the fact that
@driverminnie
In 1982(?) Terry did a gig we organised to raise money for THT. I MCd. After, a man tapped me on the shoulder and said “I like your jokes”. Terry and I became friends from then. A starting out comic and one of the great comic geniuses. He had no sense of status. What a lovely man
I was at the meeting. There was no “transphobic” talk at the meeting. It was about women. Protesters shouted and pushed and shouted “scum” within inches of my face. Pink News is distorting the truth.
WPUK: "We literally do not know what [Pink News] are talking about."
Joseph Goebbels: "The bigger the lie, the more it will be believed."
Dangerous times. :-(
This is what I wrote after the Meade judgement to warn employers on the need to respect belief. Rachel Meade has now been awarded exemplary damages and Westminster Council and Social Work England have been told to train their staff. Happy to help!!
Supported by the wokey wonkey former activists who are terrified of not looking cool rather than protecting lesbians and young people from gender ideaology. Last night was both shocking (the screamers) and inspiring (the speakers) The only ‘hate’ was on the pavement outside
All along I have backed Kathleen’s brave outspokenness about the need for proper, respectful, fact based discussion. This is a v good piece. It is a shame that so many of the so-called Progressives have surrendered this territory to the ‘Right’.
@Smazeny_
@JJMacBride
@EdinUniStudents
I am not a founder of the LGB Alliance.That was two lesbians. I am focused on dialogue at Edinburgh.i do not do guilt by association and I’d ask you not to but rather to discuss our differences and see where we do and don’t disagree. The exchange of ideas is core to a University
Very helpful clarification. Beliefs of both are protected. Neither can be harassed. Belief is not a defence to harassment. We are finally moving towards the place of reasonable discussions.
@stonewalluk
when will you catch up??
Today’s Sunday Times about why there is such intellectual intolerance in universities and what we can do about it. Why we have to stand up for the exchange of ideas
@LabelFreeBrands
The way Stonewall is now being led breaks my heart (as one of the co-founders). Instead of propagating this kind of wibbly wobbly wokeness why are they not getting feet on the ground outside schools where lesbians and gays are again being vilified??
@FionaSnp
@holyroodmandy
@kiehlmanniac
@xbasslichtie
@ManyFacedGodess
As a law maker you surely understand that this is not about a ‘bad apple’, it’s about precedent. If a male bodied person by self id-info can force women into what is effectively sex work (ie touching genitalia) on the basis of identity discrimination that is wholly bad for women
In the 80’s the government and the press tried to silence us with s28 and vile stories. I know. I was there. Now it’s the TRAs. They know nothing of solidarity which comes from understanding difference (eg between sexual orientation and gender disphoria) and then finding common
This is what I wrote (The Daily Mail oddly was one of the few places where then one could write a dissenting piece) which tells what happened when a bunch of Stonewall founders tried to engage with their strategy.
Stonewall made our reputation with reliable, credible, fact based argument. It was how we win the mainstream of the population to our ideal of equal treatment. RH’s refusal to encounter and answer these questions has compromised Stonewall and created division. Heartbreaking
Dear Nate. I am not covinced that LGBTQI+ represents any kind of community. The interests and legal requirements of each are different. And where they clash we need to have respectful discussion. It makes no political or legal sense just to lump us together
Thanks to HR Mag for letting me write on how important it is for organisations to create safe spaces FOR disagreement and dissent NOT FROM them. My book The Power of Difference Will be out in December
Can someone enlighten me. What is the point of LAW in the Mermaids vs LGBA case? What does who have to prove against whom? And what can this tribunal rule in its verdict?
This must be unacceptable in academia. Universities are precisely places of debate and challenge. They must be physically safe while intellectually dangerous. Language is NOT violence. We must support freedom of speech and thought. If you disagree, argue don’t ban
Fundamental life changes (like returners from maternity leave) are huge assets to resilience due to their widened skills and experience. So often overlooked, says
@SimonFanshawe
(plus dumper truck racing)
#resilience19
@uk_theatre
Surely the biggest problem is not just the ghastly racism of the patient but the fact that this life long doctor didn’t feel 100% confident that he would be supported by the NHS if he challenged it.
My heart snaps in two watching this. Specialist surgeon whose whole life has been dedicated to the
#NHS
close to tears over being asked ‘Can I have a white doctor?’ And his response, my God. Hard to believe it’s 2019.
#racism
#nationalism
#brexitbritain
I may have watched this several thousand times and the sheer subterranean vulgarity and entendres of it make me laugh every time RIP the genius Barry Humphries
My piece in the Sunday Times biz section today about how employers must recognise and ensure true diversity and therefore of viewpoint otherwise they will divide their staff and end up in court.
My problem with Stonewall isn't they lobby on trans issues, it’s that they split the LGB&T community and opinion generally by turning their back on how we achieved equal marriage via civil partnerships..We found solutions through talking, not refusing to
@vrarda1
@Bex_Stinson
Please stop calling disagreement “phobic”. Diversity is about difference not sameness. Good solutions come from varying views, not from conformity.
After goodness how many years, this is my Labour membership. So sad. Many reasons. But If the party expels
@campbellclaret
for voting Lib Dem then that’s the last straw.
#expelmetoo
The the legacy of the Master of Gonville&Caius will be a minority of students who fear engagement with ideas they say they disagree with, without doing the basics of researching what those view actually are. They were protesting what they think I believe not what Iactually said
cause. Solidarity comes from open debate between activists, policy makers and those affected. We never one anything by just denmanding people agreed with us. We found allies and common ground. These people last night simply cannot stand disagreements. And they are being
safeguarding is based on evidence. Men are the majority perpetrators of violence and harassment of women. Laws to protect children do not say that all adults are abusers. So to protect women is not to say ALL men are abusers. We make laws for the worst situation not the best
@athornehere
Debate should never be silenced, agreed.
BUT ... the basic tenet of this position is that men are at their core sexual predators, and women thus need protection and separation from men.
That position I will always point out is discriminatory, sexist and WRONG.
The case is not about “denouncing” anyone. It is about recognising that bad laws set bad precedents. In this case the Canadian law enables someone to be a woman and then demand the cover of human rights law to force a born woman into unwanted physical contact with their balls.
This yet again emphasises the one thing I have been trying to say to Stonewall - there IS a discussion needed. Stonewall have divided the movement and only recognition of our differences will enable us to find a fresh common cause. Not the insistence of agreement without dialogue
Thanks to JK Rowling's brave and unexpected intervention people are talking about my case around the world. I have had so much support &💜. I'll let you know about my next steps & what that is going to take in due course. But in the meantime...there are other women using the law
RIP the glorious
@barrycryer80
. I will miss the phone calls. “Cryer here…” Then encouragement and enthusiasm about something I’d done, said, written. Then 15 minutes of glorious anecdotage plus some great gags. I will miss his wit, sheer comedic skill and his kindness.
This is precisely what we have been arguing for all along. In particular for Stonewall to acknowledge that there are implications to their campaign demands and to reach a good solution embraces by a wide range of people we need to discuss them. No debate is undemocratic
This is brilliant from Maya Forstater’s lawyers. This is the way it should always have been - so we can discuss and debate like adults without fear of reprisal. What an enormous achievement for Maya and her team - & for everyone in this debate. ‘No debate’ narratives won’t work.
This seems a pretty significant statement: “We believe that as transsexuals we cannot continue as part of this Stonewall umbrella, which..conflates a sex based medical condition with lifestyle choices and gender expression"
@oneofthosefaces
It does cost.That’s the point. It gives out a message that it’s not ok to be any kind of man, to challenge stereotypes,but rather than you have to change sex or be both (however impossible that it) It’s completely sexist and many of us will resist. Be a different kind of man, Sam
This is fundamentally not about what I think or about what the activists think. It’s about the fact that I am prepared to listen and discuss to reach the best solutions and they are not. The public is fed up with activists trying to force their views over people’s valid concerns
Why is Cambridge and G&C enabling this in an institution which is supposedly dedicated to the pursuit of truth through knowledge and the widening of opportunity. The attempt to cancel a discussion about “the role diversity pays the core mission of a university” is a bad joke
Just heard of one academic who has had an FOI on her University emails because she expressed a ‘gender critical’ view in public. This is an assault on academic freedom. Trans rights and Woman’s rights must be debated and secured. Debate must happen and not be suppressed
@hughlaurie
@WacketPye
Did a benefit in together in Edinburgh. The producer asked me to “look after him”… ie make sure he didn’t have a drink. We had one in the pub but when we went back Robbie played blind drink every time the producer appeared. And of course went on stage and performed perfectly
@ucuedinburgh
@EdinburghUni
It would be good to see acknowledgement of the equal (and legal) requirement to protect those who hold gender critical beliefs.
@SimonFanshawe
understands the legislation and the importance of engaging in respectful dialogue. I’m looking forward to him bringing people together.
@radiosdavemac
@natachakennedy
@adamrwh
@sima_kotecha
This is a disgraceful admission of bias from a journalist. You are trashing the tradition of the BBC. As women will tell you, there is a debate to be had not about Trans people’s right to exist (which is unarguable) but about how we safeguard women and trans people equally.
@ripx4nutmeg
@sueveneer
Also dissembling about her navy ‘connections’ Senior naval office commented:’She’s been banging the naval drum for days and enough is enough. How she has presented herself – and how she has allowed herself to be presented – have been deeply misleading.’ Do we need another liar PM
I hate it. It was the insult thrown at me when young. And also it is meaningless? What does queer actually mean? Define please and explain what it adds...
A question for those of you who identify as LGBT (with the understanding that these are distinct communities):
How do you feel about "Q" being added to the acronym?
“It was not our intention nor is it in our interest to alienate any member of the LGBT+ community and we are truly sorry for the harm caused”
Well.... stop doing it then. Include Lesbians
Last week
@PinkNews
published a defamatory story about me. I’m pleased to have secured a full apology, a donation to a charity of my choice -
@UKLGIG
- & full payment of my legal costs. Their apology and my statement are here.
@CF_Farrow
Being gay is not a “value”. It’s a reality. Not telling children there are gays in the world would be like telling them there are no Catholics or that if there are they are sinners to be condemned and they must renounce it. Remember that?? Stop pushing inequality on my children
@Rosa_Leeds
Can I add my name please because since, as a cofounder, I have criticised Stonewall’s role in all of this I have been told I am both a bigot and funded by the right? However I have not noticeably become bigoted. And I am still waiting for the cheque from God
“All that money and effort expended to destroy a fundamentally good woman. What a terrible waste. What a terrible error of judgement by the CPS.”
Exactly .. what were the CPS and the Police thinking ??
“I think this is the challenge facing us all: to advance trans rights and liberation without compromising natal women’s sex-based rights and protections. This must be done in an atmosphere of mutual respect..” a careful argument for a civil discussion. well worth reading
Diversity and inclusion risks pushing us apart ... we just need to learn to work together
Why Coutts and Nat West dangerously distorted the idea of inclusion
@aniobrien
@MayorWatermelon
I want to be proud about achieving equal rights for those who are same Sex attracted. Pride for me is about sexual orientation. For many though it appears to be about sexuality. I want to celebrate political and societal achievements not personal sexual behaviour.
Increasingly it is the case that sexual orientation is being deliberately confused with sexuality, sex with gender and lesbian and gay with trans. We need clarity to understand and campaign. As The Prisoner might have said “I am not an acronym”
@ilporticolondon
@iseult
You were generous and so welcoming us all to raise money for the very significant work Lumos does and has been doing for years in Ukraine with institutionalised children. Horrified that you have been harassed for that.
@jk_rowling
@suzanne_moore
@PippaRoge
you are the leader of the College. How can you justify this failure of intellectual and organisational leadership?? You are failing to serve your whole student body with empty protestations that you defend academic freedom when you palpably do not.
@Docstockk
@SussexUni
I was chair of the council for 6 years and am an alumnus. I feel so ashamed that the managers of the university I love failed in their core task of defending the exchange of ideas based on evidence and respectful argument. This is a symptom of a far larger crisis in dialogue
Another trans voice. Why does everyone stereotype trans views by assuming they are all the same. Like lesbians and gays we all think individually. That’s why we need a calm discussion about the right solutions to trans and lesbian rights
It is not transphobic to say Transwomen are male(we wouldn't be transitioning if we weren't), it's not transphobic to say biology is real and binary(being trans relies on the binary), why are so many voices being silenced?
My piece on the book for Lesbian and Gay News "an argument for conversation.. for finding common ground rather than demanding obedience to a single view, for real diversity and true inclusion where spaces are safe for disagreement not from disagreement”
@Indy_Leya
@LGBTLabour
This is Ann Henderson’s biography. A pretty impressive and long career from train driver to deput at Scottish TUC. Maybe worth a read
@LGBTLabour
before your ill judged tweet
My thoughts exactly… the ‘Q’ word to me in my history is the gay ‘N’ word. Use it if you want, know this.. don’t use it about me or to me if you wouldn’t mind. It’s not who I am
Why Picador should have given a platform to
@KateClanchy1
and lead the discussion, not thrown her overboard. We won’t defeat discrimination by shutting down disagreements. Listen to the young people she taught. Their wisdom on this is immense.
Why is Cambridge and G&C enabling this in an institution which is supposedly dedicated to the pursuit of truth through knowledge and the widening of opportunity. The attempt to cancel a discussion about “the role diversity pays the core mission of a university” is a bad joke
Who was it who said “I reserve the right to be wiser today than I was yesterday”. We must encourage particularly law makers who change their mind to embrace good ways forward
@MForstater
This will enable the true diversity of opinion and views to be respectfully expressed. This is crucial to creating real inclusion in order to find the best solutions. The exchange of ideas and experience is central to democracy and diversity.
@Mirror_Editor
I don’t want to see him. I don’t want to know his name. I don’t want stories about how he suddenly changed when his father died of cancer. I want to hear only of the victims. He is a murderer. Dignify them not him.
This is terrific news that Oxford Brookes has acknowledged its duty to freedom of critical thought and evidence based argument as central to the role of a University in society.
I spoke on the same platform with
@jacqui_gavin
a trans women of several decades. These student disrespected her and dismissed her as “a transwoman who the trans community had rejected” As Jacqui said sardonically. “I am the wrong kind of trans apparently”
It is happening as a result of self id without a proper process which protects women and people who have transitioned. And I am saying that you should take more care, as an advisor to a political party, of the implications of your positions and advice.
Thanks. It was the wonderful NUM official Dai Donovan who said that at the legendary gig to support the Miners “Pits and Perverts” in Oct 1984. I was quoting him and I have always been inspired by the truth of what he said
We don't quote men often but will make an exception here. Something
@SimonFanshawe
said last night about building a sense of
#Solidarity
.
'We used to say "You wear our badge. I'll wear yours." not "we must both wear the same badge" '