If you see something I tweet and you think I’m way off but you don’t follow me and I didn’t tag you…it’s ok, it wasn’t for you, it was for me. I’m not trying to convince you or change your mind, so please don’t respond like I was
Has anyone explained how this new Utah bathroom law will be enforced? Like, is it the gender equivalent of New Yorks “stop and frisk” laws? That girl looks like a dude to me…she either needs to get naked or let me Pat her down or I’m taking her to jail. What could go wrong?
I know the church has a committee that patrols online activity for members being apostate and often notifies local leadership so that discussions/discipline can happen…if Craig Robertson wasn’t on their radar they need to seriously adjust their search parameters
Hey...so...I'm more than just a little curious about how a bishop finds out a member of his congregation has an OnlyFans account. Also can some hacker please get into the data and tell me how man members of her wards EQ are subscribed?...cuz that number is not zero.
I was in a bishopric at the time & as the counselor who was most empathetic to this issue, I was assigned to go visit about 12 families that were in a faith spiral b/c of it. I had nothing for them but to listen...I should have just said "You're right, let's get out of here"
You know it is from God when it feels good* and Satan when it feels bad**.
*Except when Satan mimics that good feeling, which he is like REALLY good at doing.
**But also sometimes God makes you feel bad so you will repent.
What people arguing with Dan McL sound like to me
Dan: The Speed Limit sign says the maximum speed is 65mph
Dude: Liar! I drive 75 every day
Dan: OK but the sign says 65
Dude: Everyone knows cops let you go 5-10 over
Dan: OK but that is not what the sign says
Dude: APOSTATE!
BREAKING NEWS: Mormons are very upset that a video of their massively expensive Times Square Christmas movie is going viral but has been edited to cut out the name of the church.
We now go to our biblical corespondent Matthew for his thoughts on the matter, take it away Matthew:
Since leaving “the gospel of Jesus Christ” the happiness in my family life has improved greatly (🧵):
1) Actual time spent together as a family has increased exponentially. Less church commitments has meant more family dinners, weekend adventures, 1-on-1 time etc. 1/15
One silver lining to being a highly orthodox/fully committed Mormon for the vast majority of my adult life. Is that now I have a nearly endless collection of incredible/award-winning movies I haven't seen b/c they were rated R. What are your favorites (pre-2021-ish)?
Lol, Glenn deleted the thread! Say it with your chest my guy! Speak truth to power!
Probably got a few phone calls, and would not be surprised if he now knows “why” Ballard got thrown under the bus. Wonder how long until Glenn tries to wash his hands of TB/OUR
Mormons are (again) upset that people make no effort to understand why ordinances for the dead is such a sacred part of their faith...and also making no effort to understand why baptizing dead relatives w/o consent is so hurtful and offensive to some people. Golden rule folks.
If the AP story is a sake news hit job the LDS church should ABSOLUTELY sue for defamation. Proving, in court, that they did the right things would be HUGE!!!
Alas, I predict they will fight these allegations strictly through bluster and carefully worded statements.
If John Dehlin were my new leader/prophet I’d have to figure out some way to justify his actions here or say people just don’t understand, or suggest this is no big deal, or that it was taken out of context…but instead I can say w/o reservations that this is complete BULL SHIT
The church's new guidelines for stake/ward boundaries has couched within them a reminder that the church needs precisely 0 women to operate. So members should be a lot more empathetic when women express that they do not feel equally valued in the church.
Cardon repeatedly dropping “heavenly mother” as this super cool doctrinal truth of women’s empowerment as if she is not the church’s “Bruno” was pretty hilarious.
LDS church can control:
Temples planned/built
Number of missions
LDS church cannot control:
Weekly Attendance
Formal resignations
% of membership that is active
They have the data to report out on ALL of this, you’ll never guess which ones they choose to share.
@whitecatprophcy
There was a baby blessing for a baby girl and the grandpa was doing the blessing and he said “we give you a name and a blessing and confer upon you the Melchizedek priesthood” paused for about 10 seconds…lifted up his hand and waved it over her and said “undone”
Exmo friends....the next time someone tries to suggest "the light in your eyes" is a reasonable way to discern spiritual well-being, feel free to share this picture.
When someone is going to commit murder do you think they worry "Oh no, if I go through with this I might get excommunicated from the LDS church"?
See also: Rape, abuse, etc.
It is not a meaningful deterrent for these acts and the sooner the church understands that the better
If Joseph’s marital practices were socially acceptable in his day…I have but one single follow up question:
Why were people IN HIS DAY trying to jail and/or murder him because of it?
Someone probably should have told those mobs how socially acceptable it was…
People who “occasionally rush into the temple” sound like they have very full schedules but despite that they are making time to get to the temple. Kinda sounds like a time oriented version of the windows mite…but I seem to recall Jesus teaching this concept very differently.
You leave the church but you can't leave it alone exmo counterargument number 10,685,423
Exec Sec call last month: Can the Bishop come visit?
Me: No thanks
Exec Sec 2 days ago: Can the Bishop come visit?
Me: No thanks
Bishop Today: Can I come visit w/ my 1st C?
Me:
An Arizona judge has dismissed a high-profile child sexual abuse lawsuit against the LDS Church, ruling that officials had no duty to report the abuse because the information was received during confession.
I’ve tried to write 2 dozen tweets about this, some funny some snarky, some serious, some sad, some angry…but none of them accurately portrayed how very very much I hate this
Pretty disappointing that Jasmine was not around to inform Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F. Smith, Heber J. Grant...of this VERY important clarification. Instead all they had to go off of was "the mind and will of the lord"
The Lamanite Skin of Blackness in the Book of Mormon is not skin and let me show you why. This is part of a larger series I’m doing on all the different theories surrounding the Skin of Blackness so definitely check those out. /1
Sometimes I laugh that Mormonism claims eternal families as some unique doctrine…as if Christianity was out here saying “the only bummer about heaven is that God has this one rule…no families allowed” before Mormons came along.
I've been out of the church for nearly 3 years now. Can someone let me know when I transition into the "eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" lifestyle? I was under the impression it would be immediate, but it hasn't happened yet, and I just want to know what to expect.
When the Catholic church abuse scandal broke no LDS folks called it fake news slander. In fact, I recall many calling it further proof that Bruce R. was right when he declared the Catholic church was the "whore of all the earth."
I'm sure members will feel the same here...
Hundreds of women in the Mormon Church have come forward... and accused one member — a Harvard educated physician named Dr. David Farley - of sexually abusing them. Three of those women: Nicole Snow, Lisa Pratt and Katie Medley joined me tonight.
Can’t stop laughing at the own goal here…when you start your claim with “even if there was evidence” you are admitting that there is in fact no evidence.
You would think the BOM would be a godsend for archaeologists, anthropologists and historians. What an incredible collection of details about multiple ancient societies…they should be pouring over its pages for clues and insights…and yet…
Don't take counsel from those who:
Obscure/hide unsavory facts about themselves
Do not acknowledge their own mistakes
Publicly declare that they do not offer apologies
Claim you cannot be happy w/o them
Demand unflinching loyalty
...regardless of what they believe
The “are Mormons Christians” debate is equally dumb and pedantic. However, Mormons do a terrible job of addressing the doctrinal contention and just point at the name of the church and subtitle of the BOM as if that settles it…it does not.
I wish Mormonism understood. If you:
1) Do not have an organic (read - nothing affiliated w/ church) reason to connect w/ someone
2) Do not have an pre-existing relationship
3) are primarily motivated by wanting someone to return to church
You are better not to even try.
Here's the thing...if the numbers were great they would publish them in every newspaper that would let them. They might even take out ads on TV, billboards and times square. So I am comfortable at least deducing the numbers aren't great.
The LDS Church declined to turn over its state membership breakdowns to Utah’s government in late 2021 due to the pandemic making the latest figures unreliable. The church planned to resume data-sharing the following year but it didn’t — and it won’t.
@LDSssTeacher
As sad as this thread makes me, it is also a really beautiful expression of selfless giving. You gave up your comfort, your community and your spiritual home to ensure you could offer asterisk free love to those who matter most in your life. We should all be so brace
I remember believing that calling of GAs must be such a holy experience. Like how do you narrow down millions of options down to THE GUY w/o God directing you…selections in my adult life have pulled back that curtain. Cover up SA, write some anti-LGBTQ amicus briefs & your in!
The First Presidency has called Alexander Dushku to be a General Authority Seventy. Elder Dushku will be sustained at the October 2023 general conference.
It strikes me that believing a prophet can sometimes be speaking the literal word/will of God but also sometimes is just speaking, speculating & theorizing as man…is precisely the living, breathing personification of the concept of “the philosophy of man mingled w/ scripture”
When stuff happens that you don’t understand/doesn’t make sense and you think the only plausible explanation is an elaborate conspiracy that runs contrary to the available info but allows your beliefs to remain in tact…you’re not exercising faith you���re experiencing delusion
LDS Folks...Dealing with exmormons is not hard. Just follow this example.
If I were to ever give the church another chance it would be exclusively b/c of people like this who are willing to hear, believe & accept my experience.
@ReformedMormon
@stackerco
Although I wish you did not leave, and hope you come back some day, I appreciate you giving it a good-faith effort. My brother-in-law has a similar story and, after not receiving answers about the truthfulness of the BOM, and after years of trying, left.
As a Mormon I was taught that to keep the repetitive study of scripture meaningful I should read from a different perspective and see how that helps expand my view. So I am very confused how angrily resistant LDS folks are when
@maklelan
simply presents the scholars perspective.
Among the things I miss least about the church is that no matter how much the church requires of its members or how strict they are, there were always individuals that wanted to suggest in order to be REAL disciples members should actually be taking it 5-10 steps further.
Here's a bet...many members who accept "some dudes said they saw them" as sufficient evidence for the Gold Plates, will require M Elder Ballard to personally show up on thier doorstep, hand them a stack of evidence & declare "I gave Tim tithing records" for them to believe it.
Sometimes it makes me sad to think I repeatedly sang (WITH ENTHUSIASM) “earth must atone for the blood of that man” and never once thought “hey, that’s some dangerous and problematic rhetoric we are all harmonizing to”
The irony in Joe prophesying that “No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing” is that…he was kinda right. The church will die a slow painful death not because of anti-mormons etc…but because of what has been said and done by a long line of allegedly “hallowed hands”
There is a video making the rounds on Mormon Twitter trying to show how evil Julie Hanks is b/c she’s made statements that directly contradict statements by General Authorities…as if you could not make an even longer video of GAs contradicting each other and/or themselves.
Mormons: The Word of Wisdom is an divinely inspired law of health that we follow.
Also Mormons: come to our 4th of July BBQ, we’ll have burgers, brats, hot dogs, steaks…oh and be sure to come to the breakfast on the 24th there will be sausage, bacon, the whole deal…
Mormons,
Word of wisdom is weird
You don’t have to do some things specifically mentioned in the word of wisdom
You have to obey some things that are not in the word of wisdom at all
And the cannoned scripture says it’s not a commandment.
But it really is.
How committed was I to the gospel? I picked and managed my career based of my patriarchal blessing. I’m damn good at my job and make a good living so I guess it’s OK, even though deep down I know it’s not really what I would have chosen if I had just followed my interests.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is expanding its charitable donations to the Hawaiian island of Maui.
W. Christopher Waddell, First Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric, announced that the Church will give US $1 million to the American Red Cross to help relief
@pinkfluffyturt1
This is important b/c it feels like the last great foothold Mormonism has is the incredible sense of community it can develop at a ward level. I know many who no longer believe and stay almost exclusively for this reason. If they lose that foothold it could have a major impact.
This is not a doctrinal issue, this is a choice to establish and enforce policy that visually reinforces patriarchal superiority and value over women. If that is not the churches intent they should change or stop enforcing this policy
Women Relief Society leaders have been sitting on the stand facing the pews during Latter-day Saint Sunday services in the San Francisco Bay Area for a decade or more.
Last month, the practice was abruptly discontinued.
I would give “Moroni’s Promise” a TON more credence if it were applied as “ask God and whatever he tells you, go with that” instead of “ask God…and if the answer isn’t yes then fix something about how you did it until it is yes”
Update
Me: We aren't coming back & don't want to meet w/ you as bishop but our kids are becoming friends so we should get to know each other better. We'd love to have your family over for dinner next week
Bishop: Maybe, but I'd really like to meet w/ you & discuss why you left...
You leave the church but you can't leave it alone exmo counterargument number 10,685,423
Exec Sec call last month: Can the Bishop come visit?
Me: No thanks
Exec Sec 2 days ago: Can the Bishop come visit?
Me: No thanks
Bishop Today: Can I come visit w/ my 1st C?
Me:
Guys I found it…the most hilarious homemade apologetic: Plural marriage is not a redefinition of marriage, it’s just a change in timing…why didn’t I think of that!
I have a growing suspicion that those of us (myself included) who may have initially assumed Tim Ballards wife was an innocent, and deceived bystander in all of this…are going to be very disappointed when all is said and done.
Years ago, after expressing angst about Oaks/LGBTQ. My dad (who is a close friend w/ Oaks) suggested that I had good points & I should write a letter to Oaks. I replied "He wants to lecture he doesn't want to learn" My dad was deeply offended by that assertion...but I was right.
Dallin H. Oaks’ grandson and Ballet West Music Director Jared Oaks was recently on a podcast talking about coming out as gay.
Tiktok link:
Podcast link:
Tweeting primarily to a few hundred followers who also don’t think the church is what it claims to be is not attacking the church, it’s talking w/ friends. If someone else who loves the church hears that conversation in passing…that’s still not attacking the church.
I have a few nephews on missions, and based on their weekly letters/pictures it seems like what is being developed on missions these days is what I would call “bro culture” rather than testimonies, Christian ethics or moral character.
It appears the new Tim Ballard apologetic de jour is MLK’s infidelities. So to be clear, yes that was bad too BUT! MLK was not telling women “hey, we are never gonna get civil rights unless you sleep with me”…so the similarities are not particularly strong
I try not to be petty, but as someone who was regularly told to stop questioning the church and its leadership b/c decisions, I deeply disagreed with...I can't help but revel every time those who gave me that direction find thier pet issues in the crosshairs.
Rules to live by:
If someone tells you need to something evil to do something good, you don’t
If someone says you were married to them in another life, you weren’t
If someone claims they talked to a Christian prophet from ancient America , they didn’t
Even if the book “Mormon doctrine” is not actually Mormon doctrine (a premise I am fine agreeing to) it at the very least is a monument to how not plain/precious and how confusing/convoluted Mormon doctrine actually is if a senior GA and future apostle even got a lot of it wrong.
Are nephites/lamenites the only groups of people in history that a large population fervently believe existed but for whom there is no claim of their existence outside of that group of believers?
Me: Sometimes I felt great peace/comfort while reading the BOM
TBM: THE SPIRIT! It’s true!
Me: You’re sure that not just elevated emotions?
TBM: 💯
Me: When I left the church I felt the exact same great peace/comfort
TBM: That’s just elevated emotions
Me:
Ok…for those keeping track at home, when you leave the church it’s because you were never really committed in the first place, but also when you were obedient to explicit prophetic council you were going overboard. Cool.
Church leadership preaches but NEVER models repentance (this was a long standing pet peeve of mine as a believer) on a personal or organizational level. So we should not expect individual members to to do so either.
I wish Mormons realized that when they excitedly share a quote they think is some mic-drop-boom-roasted-lion-of-the-lord quote from Brigham they are also validating these types of quotes. You simply cannot pick up one end of the stick here.
Imagine being a non-Mormon in 2014 and a good friend takes you to the Meet the Mormons movie in theaters…10 yrs later you are chatting w/ that neighbor and you say “oh, Jake is a Mormon too right?” Only to get lectured about how calling people mormon is inappropriate.
The fact that so many mmbrs switched overnight from being proud to be a Mormon, to believing the nickname “Mormon” is offensive…
Shows just how effective the Mormon church is at manipulating members thinking & instilling a sense of persecution.
Do you ever just laugh that for a large portion of your life you took seriously an organization that claimed to speak for God on earth and told you to strive to be like Heavenly Father and Jesus but also suggested a beard and long hair was inappropriate…
The church won the spin game by more or less trademarking the word "doubts" to mean anything that would cause you to have a negative view of the church
It's not doubts, it's information
It's not doubts, it's history
It's not doubts, it's documents
It's not doubts, it's reality
It’s really hard for me to understand why the exmo/TBM interface isn’t just:
I don’t think the church is true…I disagree…conversation over.
Instead many insist on taking it here:
I don’t think the church is true…oh so your cheating on you wife huh?
Eric Moutsos confirming the TB accusations might actually be more damning than the churches statement, but both parties would only take that step if they absolutely had to. Seems probable the true story will be much darker and more sad than any of us expect
GUYS! It’s happening! The TBM side of Twitter found this and LOVE IT. For those keeping score at home:
TBMs 2 days ago: Here are 74 loopholes in Pres Nelson’s council to not be dicks
TBMs today: That BYU-H talk rules. Non-Stop truth bombs. No notes, he should’ve spoken at conf!
When I left the church I resolved not to try to pull friends and family out of the church with me. That said, if I ever see “Visions of Glory” in their possession, we are going to have an intervention. Daybells, Ballard and others followed that book to disaster
TFW you thought "continuing revelation" totally OK as it flip flopped multiple key tenants/prophetic teachings b/c it seemed to always align w/ your personal opinions but now there is evidence that maybe someday even your sacred cow might be sacrificed to "continuing revelation."
I often think about how my life has changed since letting go of a belief in God (at least as it has been explained to me thus far). I think perhaps just as impactful is letting go of a belief in Satan.
One fun part of being exmo is that b/c members want to prove to us it’s the “1 true church” we get to hear the unfiltered/real/arrogant way many Mormons feel about other faiths. They’d NEVER be this openly dismissive to friends/family of other faiths, but it’s 100% how they feel.
@stackerco
Too bad the SDA church doesn’t have the preisthood or any authority to baptize or act in Christ’s name. Too bad they don’t have a prophet receiving revelation. Too bad they don’t have temples that are literal houses of the lord where the gathering of Israel is underway on this
@jessiejensen
I remember going to my first temple dedication & hearing about what a HUGE AND EXCITING experience it was. Someone mentioned the Hosanna SHOUT and I was super excited to feel the energy of a whole congregation shouting praise...I've heard Miranda rights read with more enthusiasm.
I love that this is posted as a mic-drop statement. Like holy shit THE PROPHET publicly declared that one of the major “signs of the times is about to happen”…as if it is not betrayed by a parade of prophets before him (going all the way back to Paul) haven’t said the same thing
It has been a week & the LDS church has not issued a retraction or otherwise negated the statement provided to multiple outlets. If you think they put THAT statement out w/o firm knowledge of wrongdoing you don’t know the church.
It has been a week now, and no evidence of Tim Ballard name dropping an Apostle or evidence of sexual misconduct has been shown.
Only internet allegations hyperlinking to internet allegations hyperlinking to internet allegations.
I refuse join the mob!
Pascals wager is dumb. What if you spend your whole life as a devout Christian just in case it's true...but then you get to the afterlife and it is Zeus, or Odin or Kang the Destroyer...and they are PISSED you spent your whole life worshiping another God.
Fundamental to the idea of Pascal's wager is the notion that it does not "cost" anything to be a Christian.
The upfront cost is low, but then the true costs over a lifetime are quite significant.
From tithing to to societal cost of religious wars... what are the true costs?
The LDS Church’s practice of not reporting sexual assault not only protects the abusers instead of the abused…but according to their own doctrine it also is preventing the abuser from fully repenting. The practice is contrary to their moral claims at every level
One of the great mouse traps of religion is the idea that any "dark/bad/scary" feeling is from Satan (or your religions bad guy of choice). So when you start to pull the curtain back on the religion and it gets uncomfortable many assume that b/c Satan is behind this "scary" info.
Watch this, then think to yourself, what would it look like if we added a reasonable collection of livestock/bees into this equation and eliminated the craft's ability to steer. That is the Jaredite barges. 100% fatality rate for all people on board.
I am not a historian but the 4 things even I know about Alexander the Great are
1) his name was Alexander
2) he was great (disputed)
3) he was Greek
4) he was gay
Anytime someone tries to tell me Lamen and Lemuel were bad people by citing 1st Nephi…I’m like…you know Nephi had a falling out with his brothers when he wrote that and he was highly motivated to make them look bad so he could be the leader of the family
What has made my marriage strong so far is that we WANT to be together but don’t HAVE to be together. We should marry people that are perfectly satisfied on their own, not desperate for companionship. Independence in a spouse should be sought after not avoided or feared.
Parents of 20-something men, this is what your son is encountering out here, so if he’s not dating anyone don’t shame him for it. Thoughts on her perspective?
@stackerco
You are gonna get grilled for this being 2nd hand from a source members deem unreliable, but they only object to the story b/c it sounds wacky & makes JS sound like a weirdo...but like, how is this story any more wacky than dozens of other JS stories members proudly declare true?
The Great Apostasy: That one time God saw his followers changing, getting confused by and generally struggling to maintain his pure gospel. So God thought, I know, I’ll take the pure truth off the earth but like, won’t tell anyone…That’ll clear things right up.
This is so tired to me. Media is not made for the purpose of setting a preferred national culture. It is made to tell interesting stories. The story he’s asking about was +\- the ONLY story being told for a 100 years. People want to hear and tell new stories now.
To be clear, Mormonism has 2 options here:
1) Skin means skin
2) PROPHETS OF GOD are unreliable and inaccurate in their interpretation of scripture.
Both have VERY unsavory consequences but I am baffled that believing members would think opt. 2 is something worth fighting for.
One of the funnier things to observe as Mormons twist thier scriptures into knots in order to avoid the reality that skin means skin...is that they are accidentally unearthing additional plot holes in the text that further strengthen the argument that JS made it up.
We just had the kind of Christmas Eve that our kids will tell stories about at our 40th wedding anniversary or something. Seriously a top 5 all time evening for my little family. I love them like crazy. Merry Christmas y’all.