Baptist ➡️ Catholic convert. OBU alum. Student at Holy Apostles College and Seminary. Aspiring apologist aimed towards ecumenical dialogue with Protestants. ✝️
Don't be afraid of adapting the language we use to help our separated brethren better understand the Holy Catholic Faith. Only be weary of, in this honorable pursuit, mangling the faith such that the substance is changed by conforming to the positions of those we try to reach.
“Evangelizing Catholics” 101: Bring up as many topics as possible that you’ve never cared to study and act like they all contradict the Bible verses you have memorized.
Cardinal Zen spends 100% of his statement attacking
@ReasonTheology
with ad hominems and gives no reason to believe that Michael (whose doctoral dissertation is *literally* on the Magisterium) doesn’t know how to distinguish between levels of authority. It’s absolutely laughable.
Cdl. Zen’s critique of Michael Lofton is very bad. He just says Lofton doesn’t know what he’s talking about…w/o explaining why.
The mob will side with anyone who criticizes Francis. Those who follow the Tradition of the Church follow the See of Rome, not the See of Hong Kong
What’s bizarre is that somebody like Anderson still exists - who has the mental capacity to spend 5 minutes on Google and realize none of these arguments are adequate critiques Catholicism. They rely on ignorance of what the Church teaches or simple misapplication of Scripture.
@jderosa1990
@ReasonTheology
👍I have yet to find a more thoughtful analysis of FS than
@ReasonTheology
. People hate on him, but his reading is indeed balanced and also in line with all further clarifications from Pope Francis and Cardinal Fernandez. He has his criticisms, but he refrains from public dissent
@catholic_anglo
@ReasonTheology
It's a shame, then, that his education didn't aid him in providing a brief rebuttal to Michael's arguments. Instead, Cardinal Zen decided to release a statement insulting Michael's intelligence and appearance. It would seem that his time would be better spent on the former.
They’ll just say “well the creeds and confessions express the true meaning of Scripture.”
Which just illustrates the problem. They don’t become boundaries of orthodoxy unless one has already given their consent to them. And even then, they’re not treated as irrevocably binding.
@5Solas2
False.
If you assert Scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith, then it makes zero sense to limit one’s understanding of it by fallible creeds and confessions.
Can anyone explain why so many Catholics are trashing on Trent Horn and simping for Pearl over their debate? It seems clear to me that she made a complete fool of herself/her position. I’m not too acquainted with her content, but if the debate is any indication, I’m glad not to.
There’s a reason behind the design of Protestant buildings. Their pulpit is in the middle. Why? The word of God isn’t and never has been central to Protestants. The preacher’s sermon, twisting and misinterpreting the Scripture, is. Why? Because they don’t understand the Gospel.🤷♂️
There's a reason behind the design of Roman Catholic buildings. Their pulpit is off to the side. Why? Because the preaching of the word of God isn't and never has been central to Roman Catholics. The mass where Christ is re-sacrificed over and over is central. Why? Because they
In order to get to a place where we have meaningful and engaging dialogues, we need to get past the “No one who disagrees with me honestly reads their Bible” mentality. It’s an incredibly destructive and arbitrary prejudice that retards any ecumenical progress.
How can someone seriously call
@CardJosephZen
’s smear campaign a “strong rebuttal”? His statement didn’t even address with any level of detail the things he disagrees with Michael about.
JUST IN:
@CardJosephZen
pens strong rebuttal of Michael Lofton's critique of ++Zen's analysis of Fiducia Supplicans.
“I must confess that I have often wasted my time following the program “Reason and Theology” of Michael Lofton, this big man with a little beard (who would do
Hey
@5sola2
, if you’re sharing a “clear truth”, then try citing sources for your claims.
Why can’t both things justify?
Why can’t people be justified after baptism?
Where are you getting all of these rules?
Why do you think God needs you to believe in order to justify?
You’d be hard pressed to discover the novel Protestant understanding of
• Justification as an imputation of extrinsic righteousness
• Church as non-institutional or able to exist in multiple communions
• Eternal security
“in the glass.”
The Vatican published a 130-page study on papal primacy on Thursday containing suggestions from Orthodox and Protestant Christian communities for how the role of the Bishop of Rome might look in a future “reunited Church.”
St. Justin Martyr looking down from heaven just to see evangelicals make fun of Catholics for the same reasons we were martyred in the earliest centuries of the Church
1) Trent condemns the notion that the reception of justification can be merited
2) Many *pre-Protestant* Catholic saints used the phrase “faith alone” but didn’t fall into the error of extrinsic, nontransformative, imputed righteousness
3) Sola Scriptura is unbiblical and novel
Reformed Baptists read history backwards and hence see whatever they want to see (if they don’t completely discard the witness of the Church). The sad reality is, the Scriptures (and the Church Fathers) know nothing of the central, defining characteristics of Baptist theology.
Rome reads history backwards, and hence sees whatever she wants to see. The sad reality is, the Bible knows nothing of the central, defining characteristics of the modern Roman dogma of the sacrifice of the Mass.
Refusing to recognize there are real philosophical, theological, and practical differences between latria and dulia leads
@HwsEleutheroi
and those in his camp to perpetuate the myth that the Catholic Church worships anyone other than God. Let's aim for understanding over polemics
If the Bible's own words had been heeded, the false distinction between "latria" and "dulia" would never have been introduced, let alone dogmatized. Call this "hyper-veneration" all you wish: it's worship.
This entire thread between Marshall and White is exactly the kind of insult-slinging, childish, and blind pissing match that poisons the well of any ecumenical dialogue we could positively share as separated brethren. As Christians, this behavior is absolutely embarrassing.
Was the Protestant Reformer John Calvin convicted of the crime of sodomy in 1527?
The French city of Noyon, John Calvin's birth city, had on public record a criminal conviction against “Jean Calvin” for the crime of sodomy in 1527. The historical Reformer Jean Calvin would have
@farmingandJesus
Ah, yes. The good ‘ole “these people who disagree with me never read the Bible” argument.
Believe it or not, most converts to the Catholic faith get an even more fervent love for the Scriptures in the process.
Very much enjoyed being interviewed by
@DrewTheCatholic
for a docu-style project he’s working on. Here’s a sample of unedited BTS photos from the other interviews.
@AleMartnezR1
The logic:
1. Fathers were once sons
2. Sons have a beginning
3. God the “Father” was a Son
4. God has a beginning
When we’re speaking of “begottenness” within the Godhead, it corresponds to human begottenness in an analogous sense - not an equivalent sense. Jesus is eternal.
It should be relatively uncontroversial from both Protestant and Catholic perspectives to simply confess that Christ founded his Church *prior* to the Holy Spirit’s inspiring the authors of the New Testament to write Scripture.
I’m excited to engage
@TheOtherPaul2
this Friday over whether the Church Fathers taught Ecumenical Councils to be infallible. This will be my first formal debate, so I’m sure it will be an exciting time! Stay tuned 🙏
@_nomadic_soul
@redeemed_zoomer
“What I choose to believe is none of your business”
Meanwhile: *posts what you believe publically online therefore making it available for people to critique*
That moment when it took so-called “tradcath” commentators less than 24hrs to publicly dissent against the magisterium as if there’s anything traditional about that.
@Low_Churchman
Its authority doesn’t depend on anything but God because it derives from its own nature as inspired. However, this doesn’t change the fact that recognizing its inspiration is a distinct issue. Conflating its authority with epistemic grounding of its inspire nature is unhelpful.
When you throw personal attacks rather than criticizing actual arguments, the immature will cheer.
Others will rightfully see you with less credibility and self control.
Let this be a reminder to be charitable and mature with those we disagree with to have fruitful dialogue.
Pointing to supposed, public "implementations" of Fiducia Supplicans are not de facto endorsed by FS. Anecdotal experiences are to be judged in kind. From what I see, those who publicize the blessing they give/receive do so in spite of what FS says - not in a way sanctioned by it
Catholic faith deboonked 🤯
“Oh, you think Catholicism is true? Check out this priest who is in open dissent against the Magisterium!”
The Catholic Church actually has the most conservative moral teachings of all Christian sects.
Roman Catholics: "We are the true church!"
Meanwhile, they have priests who wish everyone "Happy Pride!" and preach acceptance of sins God has judged and will judge by fire (Genesis 19:24, Jude 7).
Roman Catholicism opens wide the gate to hell. Repent!
Calvinism teaches baptismal regeneration, but with 2 qualifications
1. the efficacy of baptism isn't tied to the moment it's administered
2. baptism only saves the elect
@Low_Churchman
@TheOtherPaul2
@gavinortlund
You mustn’t deny doctrines. There’s not a prerequisite to explicitly believe/give reasons for every doctrine to join. Again, it is the role of the Church to teach the right theology - not of the individual to construct right theology and thereafter find the Church to match.
That moment when explaining what a Magisterial document means is "gaslighting," but calling the Pope (and those who defend the Magisterium) sophists, satanic, Satan's mouthpiece, and sodomite-promoters apparently isn't.
@gavinortlund
2) Pre-Protestant ecclesiology does not admit of the right for separated communions to exist and still be a part of the Church. After the reformation, in view of justifying separation from the Catholic Church, a redefinition of “Church” (to be non-institutional) was adopted.
@ApologiaStudios
Amen. All Protestants should embrace the intended meaning of the Nicene Creed and come into full communion with the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
@VerbumCatholic
@ReasonTheology
You make a good point here. It just goes to show we’re often biased in the way we wield caution. For example, when listening to someone articulate our own positions in a controversy with which they take an opposing view, we can be extremely sensitive/nit-picky to how they word it
When Protestants act like sin disqualifies a Pope or the Church from making infallible definitions on faith, they always fail to explain why.
The sin of the writers of Scripture doesn’t disqualify God from working revelatory writings through them - so it is with the magisterium
@TheosophicalW
@triana160
Just because the Catholic Church reveres Mary higher than any Protestant communion doesn’t mean that attention and devotion is “undue” - or that it even compares to the reverence with which we treat the Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity.
@gkposte
@RoblovesJC
Mary was retroactively saved from the stain of original sin so that Christ would not inherit a deprivation of justice from his mother.
For those commenting on whether Baptists could accept the Nicene Creed, I suggest taking a look at what "one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins" meant in its historical context.
I'm typically not against engaging with those who hold contrary views. I will not, however, continue to interact with those who are unable to show enough self-restraint to refrain from pure mockery. I don't care to tolerate childish behavior - especially from fellow Christians.
@CLTOhio1991
MacArthur wrongly frames the content of the quotation from the get-go so that it becomes easier for him to discredit the Catholic faith for his listeners.
Are there any other channels similar to
@gavinortlund
or
@BaptistRenewal
I can add to my roster of articulate defenders of Baptist theology? I see
@javierperd2604
's stuff on occasion, but he focuses more on why a particular person chose their tradition over Catholicism/Orthodoxy.
@TheosophicalW
@faithwillsaveu
I don't concede that you can't discern that the Catholic Church is the true Church apart from accepting papal infallibility. You can't just keep asserting this claim - you have to demonstrate it.
@JerusalemJones
@MLJHaynes
@CardJosephZen
I think when someone, regardless of their credentials and virtues, releases a public statement, they open themselves up to valid criticism. I agree with you that the things he has had to endure in his career are admirable. Nonetheless, we can still be disappointed at his reaction
I point out RC strawmen of Protestantism, so it's only fair that I flag the latter as well. We need to get beyond these sorts of caricatures if we're going to make progress. Rome does not believe God cannot act outside the sacrament, and the Reformers believed that Baptism saves
@TheosophicalW
@ApologiaStudios
I’m clearly responding to the comments made in Jeff’s video - not giving a systematic explanation and defense of intercessory prayer, veneration, devotion, etc.
@CLTOhio1991
I understand your concerns, and invite you to consider whether MacArthur reads this quotation to understand Catholicism or to chronically misunderstand/misinterpret them and use that to slander the Catholic faith? Where does Ott say Mary is “the only way to God?”
1) Catholics do not practice idolatry
2) Catholics love Sacred Scripture and our Church reads it more of it on a consistent basis than most Protestant churches
3) The Council of Trent defended the Gospel and the true nature of justification against novel and erroneous positions
Catholics
You should become Protestant for three reasons
1. We don’t make you to practice idolatry
2. We encourage people to read the Bible
3. We did not formally reject the gospel at the Council of Trent becoming apostate
Now that I’ve convinced you.. be reformed Baptist
Tune into my (part 1 out of 3) 48-hour livestream response to
@TheOtherPaul2
's response to my Sola Scriptura video/my response to Dr. Gavin Ortlund/my other Sola Scriptura video. I'll be going live on April 31 and I will also be deboonking every other video he has ever made
Clever-sounding rhetoric like this only works while employing vaguities and conflation. Does this refer to the meritorious cause of our salvation? The bestowal of salvation? The “working out” of our salvation? Clearly, we aren’t entirely excluded from the equation in every sense.
@TheosophicalW
God always authenticates his revelation through the miraculous ministry of his prophets. This is an extrinsic motive of credibility that accompanies God’s Word.
@JerusalemJones
@MLJHaynes
@CardJosephZen
Steve, he literally describes Michael as having less knowledge about the levels of Magisterial authority than a catechumen… You can’t possibly think that’s a remotely true statement.
Recently, I made the decision to go home. There is of course so much more that went into this decision and that I plan to share in the future.
But for now, praise be to God for His gentle, but relentless guiding of my heart toward Truth.
“So do not fear, for I am with you; do
Right. While low-tier Protestant arguments use isolated passages of Scripture devoid of context, the Catholic Church has successfully synthesized the whole council of God’s Word contained in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition to give a coherent and precise answer.
The video’s argument is: “even though the Catholic Church explicitly teaches otherwise and condemns any form of idolatry as mortally sinful, the Church implicitly contradicts herself by cultivating an extreme posture of reverence towards Mary in the language of some prayers.”
@The_Catechumen
@triana160
Giving undue attention, devotion, and referring to Mary with divine language most certainly is idolatrous. And this is all condoned in the Roman church:
@gavinortlund
(4) I think this is one of the main reasons why the marks of the Church as mentioned in the Creed have been given so much thought throughout the history of the Church. So, as I said in the video, these are what Catholics would primarily suggest for external motives of credibility
@Low_Churchman
Speaking of the *reason* they are canonical being God’s authorship does not have much to do with the Protestant notion of” self-authentication” of Scripture. The epistemic recognition of inspiration is a separate issue that requires other criteria.
@Low_Churchman
@TheOtherPaul2
@gavinortlund
You must believe “all the Catholic Church teaches” - this isn’t to say that a positive and formed understanding of every single doctrinal point must be explicitly present. This is describing a readiness to assent once one knows each particular. In short, dissent must not exist.
@Abathurchan
“Dogma” refers to that which is divinely revealed. These things can be defined infallibly. However, there are also secondary objects related to the deposit of faith that can also be infallibly defined. JPII’s statement on women’s ordination isn’t dogma, but it is infallible.