符荣汉🧭 @Abathurchan Twitter profile

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符荣汉🧭

@Abathurchan

11 months

Quickest answer to this: quote Council of Vatican I denying that the canon is based on the authority of the Church.

☦️ Uniate Papist🇻🇦

@DF_UniatePapist

11 months

Quickest way to break a Protestant: Ask him how he knows what books belong in the Bible

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@Abathurchan

7 months

Not even Vatican I believes that the Bible is canonical because of the Church's authority.

Drago Dimitrov

@dragodimitrov

8 months

Protestant friends, If the Church had the Authority to compile Scripture in the early centuries, at what point did it lose this Authority, considering it guided us to the Bible itself? Do you believe God took his Authority away from the Church at some point? If so, how did

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@Abathurchan

11 months

Universalists would have to agree with this unironically.

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@Abathurchan

8 months

After Trent there was a Jesuit student who collected a couple of quotes from the Fathers without attribution and asked his masters for their opinion, when they opined that it sounded heretical, Protestant, he would enjoy watching them squirm when he revealed their true source.

Lutheran AngloNat

@AnAmericanPers1

8 months

Fascinating

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@Abathurchan

9 months

Vatican I expressly rejects the idea that the canon is based on the authority of the Church.

Patrick Neve

@catholicpat

9 months

"The Catholic Church hates the Bible!" Sir, the Catholic Church invented the Bible

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@Abathurchan

6 months

The "consensus of the Fathers" is the agreement of the subset of the Father's writings which agrees with my church.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

It reminds me of these description of expert opinion on the eve of the collapse of the USSR.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

St John Chrysostom's answer on how to pick between different denominations I think really show how unreal a lot of modern interdenominational debates are. Even with a nascent Christendom in Chrysostom's time, he still did not simply assume that his church was "the Church",

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@Abathurchan

9 months

This is a good contrarian take. A lot of Christians are very eager to commend Christianity due to its moral influence, but in a post-Christian world, it feeds into the very Anglo need to subordinate religion to morality as Nietzsche points out here:

Stephen Wolfe

@PerfInjust

9 months

The Christian move to celebrate people like Tom Holland—who recognizes the Christian influence on Western culture—will, I fear, serve only to secure the latest “advancements” in liberalism (eg gay marriage). It creates Christian buy-in, thinking it’s their accomplishment.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

Roman Catholic apologetics are full of motte & baileys. They will normally claim grand expansive things for the Church that it does all these awesome things, but when interrogated there are all kinds of fine prints and loopholes. "The Pope is infallible, terms & conditions apply"

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@Abathurchan

9 months

Incoming wave of Oriental Orthodox apologetics that the degeneracy in the modern world is due to splitting the natures.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

Statistically the attrition is from high church to low church, it's just that low to high church converts tend to be intellectuals who like sects which posture long history with lots of things to read, thus they get the most verbose group who write the most on their conversion.

J. Maximus Coriolanus

@J_Coriolanus

7 months

@Reform_Patriot Nota Bene.

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@Abathurchan

1 year

@jonathanccadams

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@Abathurchan

3 months

Lone bulwark strikes again.

Ryan Burge 📊

@ryanburge

3 months

Support for a woman to access an abortion if she wants one for any reason was higher in 2022 than it was at any point since 1977. That's true for every religious group. The only group where a clear majority do not support abortion in this scenario are evangelicals.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

A lot of high church believers form their theology as a form of niche market branding, just to distinguish themselves from their perceived rivals.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

Have we finally found Nestorian twitter?

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@Abathurchan

8 months

@IustusEt It's from Owen Chadwick: From Boussuet to Newman.

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@Abathurchan

10 months

@AuronMacintyre @JoshDaws The role of the Conservative is to conserve the gains of liberals.

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@Abathurchan

4 months

Arguing which contemporary church today is "the same" church as the early church just by historical inspection is a Ship of Theseus problem. There is no solution.

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@5Solas2

4 months

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@Abathurchan

3 months

Most allegedly "limp-wrist" New Testament teachings about kindness and compassion already exists in the Old Testament. Love thy neighbour (Lev. 19:18), do not show partiality to the great (Lev 19:15), even Rom 12:19-20 about feeding your enemies comes from Prov. 25:21.

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@Abathurchan

11 months

The West is pretty incoherent nowadays.

Arnaud Bertrand

@RnaudBertrand

11 months

China tells EU that its complaints about trade deficit "don't make sense" given that "on the one hand [the EU] imposes harsh restrictions on high-tech exports, and on the other hopes to sharply increase exports to China". Which is quite funny when you

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@Abathurchan

1 month

In the Reformation when the papists argued that their position was supported by miracles, John Calvin replied his was proven by apostolic miracles. 200 years later, when Jansenists asserted the same thing, Jesuits argued that the pope's authority was proven by apostolic miracles.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

Any systematic reform usually involves three figures: the earthly chud who possess political power, the spiritual Archbishop who provides the worldview and vision, and the machievellian civil servant who prosecutes the program.

Ｐｈｉｌｉｐ　Ｄｅｒｒｉｄａ

@PhilipDerrida

3 months

If you're not a Protestant, keep scrolling... I often hear a line like this "we need to reform the church before we reform society." Do you know how the reformation even happened?

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@Abathurchan

10 months

Just let liberals run your schools, courts, police, and IRS while you do your manual labour and let them decide your taxes and loot you.

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@Abathurchan

10 months

This is not the Christian heart. When his own fellow Jews did not convert St Paul didn't just say, oh well, at least the Gentiles will turn the Roman Empire Christian! He was anguished and was willing to even be damned that his own kinsmen according to the flesh must be saved.

Thomas S. Kidd

@ThomasSKidd

10 months

Talk about anyone "poisoning the blood" of the nation is repulsive on principle. But Christians in America today should be especially grateful for immigrants. Rates of American church decline would be _far_ worse if not for immigrants from Latin America, Asia, Africa, etc.

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@Abathurchan

11 months

Statistically the attrition is from Roman Catholicism/Eastern Orthodoxy to Evangelical Christianity. It's just that they are not the types to come on X and wrote long verbose blogs about their intellectual journey. High churches provide a lot of intellectual material for converts

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@Abathurchan

2 months

@TheOtherPaul2 The rules of guilt by association are today completely made up and arbitrary.

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@Abathurchan

8 months

@SwordMercury It's just interesting that in C&C Generals, the US has all kinds of futuristic tech while China just has nukes and napalm. Today China is one of the major builders of nuclear power plants, but where are the US fusion power plants and lasers? But this image just refuses to die.

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@Abathurchan

1 year

Protestant converts suffering from buyer's remorse for failing to read the EUA and now trying to re-write the contract.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

John Adams argument that a moral and religious people is needed for a functioning republic is actually a realist and humble point, there are limits to system & constitutional design which no human art overcome. Literally the sanctifying grace of God is needed for a healthy polity

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@Abathurchan

1 year

An interesting irony of a lot of American new-right wishing for a Caesar is that the actual Caesar himself was very pro-immigration and pro-foreigners. To expand his army he incorporated many Gauls and even broke with tradition and appointed these foreigners as senators.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

What a stupid argument. My parents were literally Chinese pagans. Not the larp kind that the West practices. Christianity appeared in the world at a specific moment in time when no one's parents were Xtians, it was, is, and ever will be, ever fresh, ever new, ever contemporary.

𝔅𝔞𝔯𝔱𝔥𝔬𝔩𝔬𝔪𝔢𝔴

@MementoMori_JMJ

7 months

If you have a Spanish, French, or Italian last name and you're not Catholic, then you have failed all of your ancestors combined.

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@Abathurchan

4 months

The mainstream media reaction to this is just insane.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

It is the same thing when they claim things for "the Church", they may say that it is infallible or whatever, but when you ask what of the Church infallible suddenly it reduces to certain conveniently selected rare moments and rare personnel, but even all of the clergy always.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

I think Redeemed Zoomer categorisation of the Latin and Greek churches as "imperial churches" vs Protestants as "national churches" is very useful, as it points to the true source of their cohesion and institutional establishment. I would only add to these categories:

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@Abathurchan

11 months

It's still mindboggling Steven Anderson has 12 kids and two of them are working adults and one married. And he doesn't really look very old, he has a sort of youthful child-likeness about him.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

Anglo-American moral sensibilities are bizarre, we can't even identify refer to the Jewish rejection of the gospel, we have to criticise their graceless worldview via vague and general terms. This deference or fear of socially constructed mores like antisemitism is baffling.

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@Abathurchan

1 month

Everything the pope says in public is magisterial: And in case there is any doubt:

Christian B. Wagner 🔫🐒

@WalmartThomist

1 month

@YoungCatholic6 This wasn’t even a magisterial statement so it is absolutely possible for a pope to teach heresy in this setting

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@Abathurchan

7 months

My hottest take on abortion legislation: abortion is already illegal under the laws of the United States as, per Blackstone, all natural and divine law is part of the laws of all lands. The only thing human magistrates can do is to annex a punishment for it.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

when confronted with the very same problems of differing denominations and even interpretation of Scriptures, he didn't just say, "just believe my Church", he said, "follow that group which follows Scripture".

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@Abathurchan

1 month

Why is it even an issue that obviously a common language is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition of civic flourishing? One major issue of the Reformation is to have the Bible/liturgy translated to the national language. In England they legislated a Book of *COMMON* Prayer.

Stephen Wolfe

@PerfInjust

1 month

Let's just stick with the need for a common language. Here's Augustine, Calvin, and Althusius: "And here, in the first place, man is separated from man by the difference of languages. For if two men, each ignorant of the other's language, meet, and are not compelled to pass,

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@Abathurchan

10 days

The only church to have been, at one point of time, larger than Latin and Greek Christendom and yet without being established by the state.

Tom

@digesttom

10 days

The Assyrians are the only apostolic church that don't have a cringe online apologetics hustle going. Could this mean that they have been right all along?

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@Abathurchan

11 months

Anglican churches in East and Southeast Asia are named variants of 圣公会, which literally translates into "Holy Catholic Church".

Dwong

@CatholicDwong

11 months

@carthvsianvs It’s also fitting that the Catholic Church has the name “Catholic” whereas Protestants are named in reference to their rejection of the True Church, and Eastern and Oriental Orthodox implicitly admit their Church is not universal as their name is regional.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

And when there are differing interpretations of Scripture, he didn't just say, "Trust my Church to interpret Scripture", he argues, use your own reason and don't just believe what you are told.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

Every time a Roman Catholic blame all ills in the US on Protestants.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

"We are the true Church bcos we are the largest most universal Church. Your church can only be found in one region, mine throughout the world from Israel to China. Our church thrives tho oppressed, yours by the sword" - Assyrian Church of the East argument in the 6th century.

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@Abathurchan

1 year

@JoshDaws Peter Hitchens here has a simple way of decoding the Englishman's dialect.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

There is a reason why New England is a democrat stronghold and it isn't because of established Protestant churches.

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@Abathurchan

1 year

One should be careful about wanting another Caesar who, in the pursuit of power, will end up more pro-immigration than the present left. What you want is actually a Thomas Cromwell, not a Caesar. But most new right are too stuck in the classical history frame to see that.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

Remember the cardinal rule of denominational polemics: the bad behaviour of members of my rival group flow from their fundamental principles, but the bad behaviour of members of my group are aberrations of my group's principles and not representative of the same.

Pinesap🌲🍯✝️☦️🇻🇦

@Pinesap3wasc

9 months

Why is anyone still Anglican?

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@Abathurchan

5 months

You can also see this in grandiose claims like "the Bible came from the Church". At some levels this is trivial. If Christ and the apostles are the cornerstone of "the Church" and are part of the same, then obviously if the Bible came from them it came from "the Church", trivial!

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@Abathurchan

9 months

He assumes as a premise that anyone who wants to become Christian desires to follow the Scriptures and already knows that the Scriptures are divine revelation *anterior to knowing what the Church is*.

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@Abathurchan

10 days

This is a daily reminder that after Trump's reply that women should receive some punishment for procuring abortions it was *pro-lifers* who said that he himself was "too tough" and made him backtrack.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

Our modern interdenominational debates are really based on a historical narrative about some churches which has since acquired a reputation, in secular terms, of being "the historical Church", a reputation which didn't exist in Chrysostom's time.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

And at another level, obviously the Bible came from "the Church" in the sense that it came from Christians. It is ordinary Christians who printed the bible in your hands and put it into your hands. If "the Church" meant nothing more than "Christian people" then it is trivial.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

Or the pope speaks ex cathedra only when he teaches rightly from the apostolic tradition as contained in the Scriptures. Or that Protestants indeed adhere to apostolic tradition but they can only be found in the Scriptures. Rather than chase down all the autistic loopholes,

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@Abathurchan

11 months

@redeemed_zoomer Wrong: Only Pastor's Jim Bible Church has continuous apostolic succession.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

If you thought CofE attendance in England was bad.

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@Abathurchan

6 months

It seems that collective judgement and vindication is not only an Old Testament thing, Jesus here clearly condemns and vindicates entire towns and nations. So Jesus doesn't only deal on an individual basis, there is collective judgement as well.

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@Abathurchan

10 months

If you need a degree in analytic philosophy to interpret the Magisterium it may not be that effective at clarifying the faith.

Edward Feser

@FeserEdward

10 months

Traditionally, the Church has insisted that there are many ways a proposition can be theologically or morally gravely problematic even if it stops short of outright doctrinal error. It could be badly expressed; or ambiguous; or prone to cause scandal; or “savor of heresy” even if

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@Abathurchan

5 months

Why American Christian Nationalists should Use the Grand Union Flag as a Rallying Symbol 1. It was an actual historic flag and not a contemporary made up flag fantasised by some larper, thus it is already part of the American heritage.

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@Abathurchan

2 months

It's really interesting how portions of secular history gets set up as moral standards even for conservative Christians. There is only one normative history and that is salvation history as recorded in the Bible. Every other event would naturally be a mix of good and evil.

Shane Morris

@GShaneMorris

2 months

The highly online right is at a crossroads right now. Having driven on the turnpike to "stupid" for a while, they are flirting with the interchange to "evil."

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@Abathurchan

5 months

I am inclined towards the standard Protestant and Assyrian view that marriage is not a sacrament, and that it is a civil, not ecclesiastical institution. The church "handles" marriage the insofar as from Pauline times it handled any other civil disputes, but the breakdown of

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@Abathurchan

8 months

Interesting that keeping the commandments of God is contrasted with walking in the statutes of Israel.

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@Abathurchan

1 month

Teach infallibly on matters of faith and morals: Passive ability Teach infallibly on historical facts indirectly related to faith and morals: 5,000 mana points. Infallibly canonising a saint: 10,000 mana points. Mass for the Pope: Gain 0.001 mana points

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@Abathurchan

9 months

He simply doesn't assume the modern epistemic apologetic that you need to establish the "true Church" first before you can grasp the Scriptures.

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@Abathurchan

6 months

Keep in mind that he says this as the pro-same sex blessing position of his friend John Milbank was so unknown that Brad Little Littlejohn literally walked into platforming him unknowingly. He is certainly selective about which sins & friends to expose and to shout to the world.

Alastair Roberts

@zugzwanged

6 months

Such positions have been near to the surface for a long time, occasionally revealing themselves. Too many, not wanting to harsh the vibe, to punch right, to hurt the movement, or to attack their tribe, have fed off the energy of the extremists, while failing to police them.

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@Abathurchan

6 months

Somehow the icons next to the funkopop seems apt.

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@Abathurchan

2 months

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@Abathurchan

8 months

What if you believe that the US should be an Anglo-Protestant ethnostate and that interracial marriage is not morally wrong but is adiaphora which can be imprudent and not advisable under certain circumstances? Would that count as "far right"?

Neil Shenvi

@NeilShenvi

8 months

I define the far-right as those who hold the following stances: The U.S. should be a White ethnostate. Interracial marriage is wrong. Jews are a uniquely pernicious people group.

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@Abathurchan

4 months

This is from the horror game Still Wakes the Deep, set in the 1970s Scotland on an oil rig on the North Sea, it is one of the few games with a positive but authentic depiction of a religious Christian, Roy. As he is a side character I won't be spoiling much by describing him.

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@Abathurchan

11 months

High church apologetic theology, especially in Protestant US, is for niche branding purposes. You can see this in debates about penal substitution or hagiography, the high church convert will exaggerate differences to enhance their niche branding in the marketplace of religion.

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@Abathurchan

10 days

The "consensus" of Western Christendom was simply a function of imperial Xtianity and the use of political force to secure religious conformity. Once you can't burn heretics, you will need to appeal to epistemic instruments to justify your position and learn to live with heretics

Tom

@digesttom

10 days

The Reformation blew open a Pyrrhonist crisis of criterion in Western Christianity that cannot be solved without either circularity or infinite regress — or else without searching for a yet-undiscovered criterion by which all sides were both right and wrong in different ways.

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@Abathurchan

1 month

This just goes to the difference between the soft and hard problem of miracles. The soft problem: did the miracle occur? The hard problem: what does the miracle mean and how does it relate to theological truth claims.

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@Abathurchan

6 months

One reason to hold that Romanism is made up is because its dogmatic definitions are arbitrary constructs and themselves made up. Consider the dogmatic definition of infallibility as that which only concerns "matters of faith and morals". But where exactly does the boundary fall?

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@Abathurchan

5 months

You may have apostolic succession, but do you have the literal same piece of bread from the very table of the Last Supper itself? The Assyrian Church of the East sacraments are fascinating.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

If you thought saying "Christ is King" is antisemitic, wait till you see what we Anglican will be praying for Good Friday. A blessed Good Friday and may God have mercy upon all Jews and other unbelievers and bring them into the TRUE Israelites.

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@Abathurchan

7 months

Unironically though, has the Roman Church issued any infallible teachings on transgenderism?

cursed papist nonsense

@RCNonsense

7 months

Not the first, won’t be the last

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@Abathurchan

6 months

@His_Texan2 Everyone has disagreed with everyone, but consensus doesn't prove truth so it doesn't matter.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

They would deny the clarity of the Bible, Fathers, or any other competing source of theological truth and knowledge just to maintain the Roman magisterium monopolistic control of epistemic certainty. A lot of Roman apologetics is essentially advancing a guild interest.

Anglican Aesthetics

@AngAesthetics

3 months

The truth is that most classical Protestants have a *higher* view of the church fathers' actual theological arguments than Roman Catholics, not a weaker view. The conversation below is one I have with theologically engaged Roman Catholics *all the time*, sadly:

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@Abathurchan

1 year

Thinking of creating, or converting my Youtube Channel and a forum, to constitute a "Society of Latitudinarian Evangelicals". I intend that it should serve evangelicals and defend Evangelicalism with the best insights of reason, past and present, while being future oriented.

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@Abathurchan

11 months

High church apologists feel compelled to make the entire Christian faith dependent on believing every proposed fairy tale. Hur hur, you can't believe the resurrection if you don't believe every random myth. But the Bible itself distinguishes between tales and eyewitness.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

Just agree with them and frame it your advantage.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

When you are so anti-dispensationalist you end up as a full preterist. Lots of these high church believers define their faith by simply what they oppose.

Tacit Haven

@TacitHaven

3 months

Average theology discussion on X

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@Abathurchan

7 months

We need to study how the Assyrians managed to enjoy such a commanding size and influence at one stage of their history without establishment, and combine it with the realities of low church Evangelical spirituality in an environment without civic supports.

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符荣汉🧭

@Abathurchan

7 months

@PerfInjust This has been ironically called the Reagan strategy where the US bankrupted the USSR by forcing the latter to commit more and more of its resources to military ends. China today likely has a similar strategy for the US: get it to commit astronomical resources for war and go bust.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

Such an assumption simply wouldn't be possible in Chrysostom's time, and as Christendom declines, it will become increasingly impossible in our time also, notwithstanding the fact that it fallaciously depends on a might is right reasoning anyway.

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@Abathurchan

9 months

But of course this reputation is based on nothing else, at bottom, of a sort of might is right reasoning that our church is super big and important enough to dominate the term "Church", ergo you can just assume we are "the Church".

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@Abathurchan

7 months

@DeVeritate1 Setting aside the point that Vatican I disagrees, if you want to raise an epistemic point that solution would just lead to an infinite regress, then you need someone else who can speak with authority on the part of God to tell you who can speak with authority on the part of God.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

The reason why liberalism got established today is bcos liberals have activist spirit and are willing to jump on juries to convict white men, while the right try to evade jury duty, they also are willing to swarm into other civic roles, while the right just lazily want to grill.

Steam Age Mindset

@1894gang

5 months

If you're saying that fraud is going to change the outcome, but you're not signing up TODAY to be a poll watcher or election judge — you are a CRAVEN SLUGGARD!

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@Abathurchan

6 months

We are precisely in the dissolving the monasteries and purging the clergy moment to reform England, and the Western world's academic and civic institutions infested with liberals.

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@Abathurchan

5 months

@NateAFischer @William_E_Wolfe It's positively staggering the number of people who can't make is-ought distinctions.

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@Abathurchan

10 months

Grant Hillman 🇺🇸🇦🇲

@GrantJHillman

10 months

@egypt2_canaan “The devil causes heresy to routinely spread within the church, which is a sign of our holiness. We need more councils!” is literally just a tried and true Roman Papist argument. Incredible to see EOs resorting to it against OOs.

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@Abathurchan

1 year

Aquinas that the Successors of the Apostles to be Believed only in so far as they Teach from Scripture Happy Reformation Day!

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@Abathurchan

2 months

As a romanist i accept the Church's teachings but not governance is quite a take.

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@Abathurchan

6 months

Davenant Trust types like Richard Hooker, who comes in to conserve the achievements of the Protestant state built by *other* men. While it is easier to read and learn from Thomas Cranmer, but the true architect of thr Protestant state was the other Thomas, Thomas Cromwell.

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@Abathurchan

6 months

If you want to be technical then Hitler also technically didn't kill any Jews himself. Let the reader understand.

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@Abathurchan

3 months

Every Reformation needs an earthly Henry VIII chud, a spiritual Archbishop Cranmer to provide the ideological framework, and a machievellian Thomas Cromwell to navigate the system & prosecute the program. Conservativism has too many chuds, some Cranmers, but not enough Cromwells.

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@Abathurchan

1 year

𝕶𝖓𝖌𝖑𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖓.𝖓𝖊𝖙 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

@anglican_net

1 year

When the Church of England blesses SS couples, the Church of England falls. When the Church of Rome blesses SS couples, the entirety of Catholicism falls, around the whole world. Now you understand 𝑤ℎ𝑦 so many martyrs felt strongly enough as to even go to their deaths. Had

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@Abathurchan

5 months

Simply agree, OF COURSE the Churhc is infallible and the Church gave us the Bible. Heck, even OF COURSE the pope is infallible or that we must adhere to the apostolic tradition. Then use their fine print, but it is only infallible when they teach rightly from the Scriptures,

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