Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter @MadsTorgersen Twitter profile

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

I blogged a little walkthrough of the three major C# 8.0 features (nullable reference types, range and index expressions and async streams) shipping in Preview 1 of @VisualStudio 2019 and Preview 1 of .NET Core 3.0. Hope you like it!

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@MadsTorgersen

8 years

Try C# 7.0 now! Read all about it here and tell us what you think!

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@MadsTorgersen

8 years

The ECMA C# Standard committee meets in person for the first time in ten years!

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@MadsTorgersen

5 years

Visual Studio 2019 Preview 2 is out, and with it, switch expressions and recursive pattern matching in C#.

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

This is a great list of useful features missing from C#. They aren't fundamental flaws and could all be addressed; many are already on the radar for future versions. E.g. primary constructors are planned for C# 10.0, and could then be a building block for object expressions.

Don Syme

@dsymetweets

4 years

It's really strange what nonsense people put up with in C#. This business where expression results are implicitly discarded from statements is just insane in the 21st century. So much information loss just waiting to happen without even a warning.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

5 years

How should you think about embracing C#'s new nullable reference types in your libraries and your client code?

Embracing nullable reference types - .NET Blog

Probably the most impactful feature of C# 8.0 is Nullable Reference Types (NRTs). It lets you make the flow of nulls explicit in your code, and warns you when you don’t act according to intent. The...

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

C# 7.1 has been out for two months, but it's never too late to blog about it! (Ok, it kinda is when 7.2 releases...)

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

I thought about ways that you could allow interfaces to be implemented after the fact, separately from the original type declaration. This is long lead thinking, and we are not about to implement this in C#!

Exploration: Roles, extension interfaces and static interface members · Issue #1711 · dotnet/csha...

Roles, extension interfaces and static interface members This is an attempt to address the scenarios targeted by my previous "shapes" investigation (which was in turn inspired by the &quo...

github.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

I just updated my C# 7.0 post on the #dotnet blog to actually match the features we released on Tuesday:

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Here I go again...

Immo Landwerth

@terrajobst

6 years

Here is what's coming in C# 8.0 (by @MadsTorgersen ).

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

My talk with @dcampbell at #MSBuild yesterday on the future of C# is up on @ch9 !

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Fantastic write-up on nullable reference types in C# 8.0!

Frank A. Krueger

@praeclarum

6 years

I wrote up my experiences converting a couple projects to C# 8's Nullable Reference support. It was a bit of work so I thought you might enjoy a little guide.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

My #qconsf talk is up! If you have nothing better to do for the next 50-odd minutes, watch me talk about some of the features that we are exploring for the future of C#: nullable reference types, extension interfaces and asynchronous streams.

Herding Nulls and Other C# Stories from the Future

Mads Torgersen shares future thinking of a fast-moving major programming language, C#. Torgersen discusses pattern matching, type classes, discriminated unions and much more.

www.infoq.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

The prototype of nullable reference types is finally here! Read all about it here:

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

I wrote up our thinking on the strategy for C#, VB and F#:

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@MadsTorgersen

5 years

Very cool harnessing of C# for high-performance programming!

Lucas Meijer

@lucasmeijer

5 years

Lots of C++ <-> game programming talk going on lately. Here is what we're thinking and doing about it at Unity:

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

3 years

My talk on C#'s Functional Journey from #QCon Plus 2020 is now up on #InfoQ : This was a fun opportunity to look back on how much of C#'s evolution has been driven by ideas from functional languages.

C#'s Functional Journey

Mads Torgersen discusses how object-oriented languages, particularly C#, have adopted functional features, and what to expect next.

www.infoq.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

I love this great C# 7.2 overview by @BNarayanSharma in @CsharpCorner : C# 7.2 New Features With Visual Studio 2017

C# 7.2 New Features With Visual Studio 2017

This article explains the new features of C# 7.2. It covers ‘ref readonly’, ‘private protected’ access modifier, Digit Separator After Base Specifier (Leading Digit Separator) and Non-trailing named...

www.c-sharpcorner.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Check out @jaredpar 's great video about Span<T> and its merry friends. This is really moving the needle in a major way on safety, performance and expressiveness! I'm also super happy about the great collaboration between language, framework and runtime!

Shows

learn.microsoft.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

5 years

Didn't like the idea of @jonskeet not talking about C# 8.0 at #ndclondon , so I asked him to join me on stage for my Thursday talk:

Jon Skeet

@jonskeet

5 years

Heads up for #ndclondon attendees this week: we've replaced my C# 8 talk with a talk on versioning (as @MadsTorgersen and @billwagner will be talking a lot about C# 8 already). Hope you'll still find it interesting though - there's a lot to talk about!

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

3 years

I'm looking very much forward to joining Coders in Rio on Monday evening (July 12) for a chat about the future of C#!

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Phew! I'm finally caught up on C# 7.0 language design notes: Apologies for some of them being long in the making!

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

There I go again...

.NET

@dotnet

7 years

Watch @MadsTorgersen show us what's new with C# 7.1 & 7.2 and a preview of C# 8.0 #MSFTConnect

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@MadsTorgersen

2 years

So here it is! I sat down with Bryan to talk about my recent diagnosis with ADHD. He is a gentle, thoughtful interviewer, and it feels like a good way to share this new discovery of mine and the insights it's brought on for me.

Bryan Hogan

@bryanjhogan

2 years

Podcast: @MadsTorgersen talks about his recent diagnosis with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and how it has changed his life for the better. Listen - , or subscribe -

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

It's my turn to be on #OnDotNet . Talked to @runfaster2000 about some of those ref-related features in C# 7.0 and 7.2. It's the small stuff, but necessary and fun.

Lesser known features of C# 7

Did you know that there have been multiple minor releases of C# since 7.0? Many of these features make it much easier for developers to write more performant code by minimizing value type copying.Our...

learn.microsoft.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

8 years

New C# design notes on tuples and patterns, incorporating the great feedback from what we showed at #Build2016 :

C# Design Notes for Apr 6, 2016 · Issue #10429 · dotnet/roslyn

C# Design Notes for Apr 6, 2016 We settled several open design questions concerning tuples and pattern matching. Tuples Identity conversion Element names are immaterial to tuple conversions. Tuples...

github.com

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

I'm still trying to come to grips with the amount of systemic racism and brutality here in my adopted home country.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@mikehadlow == on tuples should call == on the elements. That cannot be done as a == overload on the generic ValueTuple<> types. It must be done in the language. We're doing it in 7.3.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Looking forward to once again joining @dcampbell at #MSBuild to talk about The Future of C#. Register:

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

9 years

Old news already, but I posted the first C# 7 design notes: . Lots of wild ideas, will be fun to see it take shape.

C# Design Notes for Jan 21, 2015 · Issue #98 · dotnet/roslyn

C# Design Meeting Notes for Jan 21, 2015 Quotes of the day: Live broadcast of design meetings: we could call it C#-SPAN We've made it three hours without slippery slopes coming up! Agenda This ...

github.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@nick_guerrera We are not likely to embrace (haha) significant white space in C# - ever! BUT, we are gradually trying to reduce the number of required curlies and levels of indentation (think expression-bodied members, using declarations, top-level programs).

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Stoked to be here! Thanks for the warm welcome!

Dinesh Beniwal

@dbeniwal21

6 years

Welcome to India @MadsTorgersen for #CsharpCon18 cc @CsharpCorner

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@bryanjhogan Can you ask him how he manages to stay so good looking? Asking for a friend.

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

In Vegas I realized where my predecessors found inspiration for Language INtegrated Query. @ahejlsberg @amandaksilver @panopticoncntrl

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

10 years

Blogged about New features in C# 6 on the C# team blog: http://t.co/DRFfvXby67

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

2 years

@davidfowl I don't have a clear favorite (they all use var, so that's taken care of! 😄), but I do want to point out that widgetsTwo is the only approach that doesn't require you to mention the Widget type again for every additional element.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@ThatVBGuy Funny, when I was advocating for 'await' internally at Microsoft, I used Outlook as an example. 😄

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

9 years

Are you guys following along on GitHub as we design C# 7? A lot on non-nullable reference types lately.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

8 years

Spent a wonderful half hour yesterday chatting with @JesseLiberty about C# 7.0 on his delightful #YetAnotherPodcast :

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

My post today on C# 7.2 and Spans on the #dotnetblog is mercifully short, but gives you links to all the more thorough explanations. Enjoy!

Welcome to C# 7.2 and Span - .NET Blog

C# 7.2 is the latest point release of C#, and adds a number of small but useful features. All the features are described in wonderful detail in the docs. Start with the overview, What’s new in C#...

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

8 years

Oh no - it looks like my #MSFTConnect talking head video on C# 7.0 is out: I'll never get used to it.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@praeclarum @nick_guerrera Sorry if I was mean! We are trying to remove more of those {'s and }'s as we evolve the language. It might lead to a net increase in ;'s though! 😄 E.g. (proposed for C# 10): namespace Foo { class Awesome { ... } } vs namespace Foo; // <-- semicolon! class Awesome { ... }

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Check out @KathleenDollard 's post on what's up with and .NET Core 3.0.

Visual Basic in .NET Core 3.0

Visual Basic in .NET Core 3 Update: March 12, 2020 This strategy described in this 2018 post has been replaced with the one in this post. Update: Oct 8, 2019 .NET Core 3.0 contains portions of the...

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@RehanSaeedUK That's the general idea. We would probably add a `;` to the end of it to make it match other one-line file-level directives (`using` etc).

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

This is lovely! Also, once you've enjoyed it (or before or during...) don't forget that this is a fundraiser. Donate here:

Jon Skeet

@jonskeet

6 years

My video of "reading the C# 6 draft specification by the fire" is now up! Many thanks again to so many generous donors, and (grudgingly) to @blowdart for the idea. (I believe the higher resolution versions are still processing. It will be 1080p eventually)

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

2 years

I hope this is helpful to folks. Maybe you know someone or have an aha moment of your own. Mostly I hope being open about it in some small way helps normalize talking about neurodiversity.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

5 years

@davidfowl You can't inherit from interfaces. If you want inheritable public members you still need to put them in a base class. So I don't think this feature will make much of a dent in the use of abstract base classes.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Love seeing @bleroy already making great use of C# pattern matching in his Minecraft client serialization code:

Take advantage of C# 7 pattern matching in JavaBlock serialization. · bleroy/minecraft.client@cfb...

github.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

8 years

Almost 48 hours: Still can't wipe that stupid grin off my face - maybe because my hands are still in the air! ;-) #msxamarin @migueldeicaza

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

9 years

New C# language design notes here: . Enjoy!

C# Design Notes for Jan 28, 2015 · Issue #180 · dotnet/roslyn

C# Design Meeting Notes for Jan 28, 2015 Quote of the day: It's not turtles all the way down, it's frogs. :-) Agenda Immutable types Safe fixed-size buffers Pattern matching Records See als...

github.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

I want to see this film made! And it couldn't be in better hands.

Hello World: The Film (Canceled)

Code runs everywhere, but who are the people that build it? This film explores the men and women who create software.

www.kickstarter.com

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Wonderful compiler 101 from @ThatVBGuy !

Anthony D. Green

@ThatVBGuy

7 years

Curious about contributing to Roslyn but don't know where to start? Start here: 2nd post soon to come!

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@MadsTorgersen

8 years

Catching up on C# language design notes by topic. First off deconstruction and immutable object creation:

C# Design Notes - catch up edition, Feb 29, 2016 (deconstruction and immutable object creation) ·...

C# Language Design Notes Feb 29, 2016 Catch up edition (deconstruction and immutable object creation) Over the past couple of months various design activities took place that weren't documented...

github.com

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

5 years

Fantastic talk by @DennieDeclercq at #MSIgnite19 ! Super clear, informative, practical and well-presented content on having a coworker with autism.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

2 years

@dustinmoris We've been talking about allowing `params IEnumerable<T>` for many years but were concerned it would lure folks into a bit of a performance degradation. The method body would go through interface calls instead of easily optimizable direct calls on an array.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@VisualStudio As always I'm more than happy to take credit for the great work of @mkristensen ! 😃

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

9 years

Had great fun as @sethjuarez let me wave my hands for almost an hour on @ch9 about where we may take #csharp next: .

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

9 years

More on null checking in C# 7: Design notes and proposal on http://t.co/F92E0wj1Fk, issues #5031 , #5032 and #5033 . It's coming together!

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

We’ve gotten lots of feedback on our venue for design discussions, and are proposing some changes. Add your voice:

Proposal: Move C# and VB language design discussions to their new GitHub repos · Issue #17054 ·...

Proposal: Move C# and VB language design discussions to their new GitHub repos We recently moved C# and VB design efforts to new csharplang and vblang repos, and attempted to move discussion onto m...

github.com

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@MadsTorgersen

2 years

@dustinmoris We've also discussed allowing `params Span<T>`. That could actually lead to a performance improvement, since we could probably stack allocate the span and save heap allocation of the array. This has another pitfall, though, in that the stack may grow rather more quickly.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

7 years

I'll be stopping by the .NET User Groups in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. Different talk than at #Codemania , so do come to both!

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@MadsTorgersen

3 years

@davidfowl @bryanl I think we'll try to get more serious about promoting a more curated "modern C#" feature set, in tooling, samples and docs. @billwagner is looking into that. It's the best we can do when actually deprecating features will break millions of lines of source code.

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@noopman @jguadagno @refreshingidea @mcbeniwal @jprosise @realDotNetDave @billjwolff @CsharpCorner I'm in a car in Delhi, on my way to the market, still having fun. Flying out tonight. Miss you guys!

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

I nearly forgot how much fun it is to hang out with Erik. No better way to spend a Friday morning! 😍🤯

YOW! Conferences

@yow_conf

4 years

Our double-length YOW!Tube session with @headinthebox & @MadsTorgersen is today! Dive into the history & trends of programming languages, as well as got bonus insights into their personal libraries w/a show-and-tell of treasured books. Don't miss it!

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

8 years

@jamie_dixon @NumberByColors Yeah, I'm trying to add all F#'s features to C#, but I just can't keep up...

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

3 years

Great initiative, @realDotNetDave ! I've donated $250. Thanks to @CsharpCorner for bringing developers across the world together to help India in this calamity! @RockinCodeWorld

David McCarter (Microsoft MVP)

@realDotNetDave

3 years

India really needs our to help them get through the #COVID -19 wave they are having. I donated $100 and I CHALLENGE ALL in the software tech world to match my donation or give more. Please RT to spread the word and post your donation. @csharpliveshow

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

We also took the opportunity to move C# and VB language design out of the Roslyn repo: and .

GitHub - dotnet/vblang: The home for design of the Visual Basic .NET programming language and...

The home for design of the Visual Basic .NET programming language and runtime library. - dotnet/vblang

github.com

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@KirillOsenkov @jaredpar @jnm236 Recursive patterns in C# 8.0 will allow the empty property pattern '{}' as a special case. If you say 'x is {}' it does nothing but check that x is not null. I think of it as "x is an object". I kind of like it, now that I've gotten used to it.

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@MadsTorgersen

10 years

More C# features implemented in CTP3: nameof operator and expression-bodied methods + other functions. Start at

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@andygocke Ambiguous Something Tree

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@MadsTorgersen

2 years

@MrMatthewLayton Thanks, this is a super interesting discussion! We definitely made mistakes along the way in C#, and with 20+ years' worth of evolution, there are some warts new features have to work around to maintain compatibility. /1

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@MadsTorgersen

10 years

What a fantastic #MVPSummit ! Great feedback on #Roslyn and #csharp 6. Can't wait to design C# 7 in the open with you guys. Thanks! #mvpbuzz

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Great to see! The VB Team Blog is back in business! Relaunching the Visual Basic Team Blog!

Relaunching the Visual Basic Team Blog

Last year we decided to retire this blog and consolidate content on the .NET team blog instead. The thinking at the time was that we weren’t really posting a lot of content to it and that there was...

devblogs.microsoft.com

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Move along platform, please! 😀

Stephen SIMON

@codewithsimon

6 years

@MadsTorgersen continues at @CsharpCorner #CsharpCon18 turn right

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Maybe check out the last four minutes or so of my "talking head" video, where I plug the nullables and explain the basics.

Shows

learn.microsoft.com

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@MadsTorgersen

5 years

Really looking forward to being part of this!

CPH .Net Usergroup

@cphdotnet

5 years

We are excited to announce "Half a day of .NET" taking place on October 3rd at the Royal Library in Copenhagen. 4 talks from 4 awesome speakers ... read more on We are celebrating 3000+ members in #CNUG with support from @SiteimproveLife #dotnet #cphftw

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

Uh oh, ominous! 😬

Stephen SIMON

@codewithsimon

6 years

@MadsTorgersen gives titanic pose @CsharpCorner #CsharpCon18

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

Freedom is won, but justice eludes us. May hope and courage find you today! Happy Juneteenth!

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@davidfowl @terrajobst @mortenmertner Thanks! Love it! The motivation section reads like something we would have written ten years ago when we had to convince our management and community that this was a good idea. 😀 I'm really happy the industry is standardizing on one approach to async. It's a transferable skill!

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@MadsTorgersen

5 years

@SamRueby @terrajobst @jaredpar .NET Framework 4.8 implements .NET Standard 2.0 and does not contain the .NET Standard 2.1 libraries and runtime behavior necessary for some of the C# 8.0 features. For more details, see the "Platform dependencies" section of this post:

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

How to check out Azure. In case you didn't pick up on that little detail, you can do it for FREE! 😀

Anthony D. Green

@ThatVBGuy

7 years

"What can Azure do for me? Do I need it? How do I find out? Will it help my business? Can it help my career?"

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@praeclarum We're definitely looking at `var?`. I even put it in my spec.

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Mads Torgersen #BlackLivesMatter

@MadsTorgersen

2 years

This is heartbreaking. The trauma of unrecognized neurodiversity in childhood can be crushing.

Josh Weed

@The_Weed

2 years

The level trauma of being a neurodivergent person raised in an ableist world is absolutely underestimated. Many of the clients I encounter have levels of trauma that could qualify them for a diagnosis of PTSD. We need to reframe this completely. /1

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@MadsTorgersen

2 years

@tannergooding @fquednau @davidfowl We're absolutely planning to keep it!

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@jmezach @dotnet That's the plan, yes. If "your friend" does something cool with them, please let me know, and tag @jaredpar as well! We're always curious to hear how these things get used, and what brick walls folks slam into that we can work on demolishing next.

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@MadsTorgersen

8 years

@gezzahead I hope not! Personally I believe that more functional features in #csharp make more people want to try the real thing in #fsharp !

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@onovotny @JamesChaldecott @lakritzator @VisualStudio We won't add anything without you asking. We are contemplating a very lightweight way of asking though. Say you can add a `!` after the name of a parameter, as in "void M(string s!)", and that causes a check to be generated into your method that throws if s is null.

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@MadsTorgersen

9 years

Love to see our C #7 feature prototypes coming together. Great work @gafter on the pattern matching implementation shown at #Connect2015 .

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@MadsTorgersen

2 years

@davidfowl @jaredpar @jcouv It's a treat to work with you David! You help us at the same time be adventurous and grounded in reality!

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." So said MLK, and I am clinging to that. But man is it long!

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@MadsTorgersen

6 years

@terrajobst @mpodonyi Also classes cannot inherit from interfaces, only implement them.

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@MadsTorgersen

4 years

@Tyrrrz Good thoughts. Some FP features are essential or highly useful in the cloud and devices world that we now live in. We do our best to add them seamlessly to C# and make them first class. That said, if you want the full functional experience, F# is a great choice!

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@MadsTorgersen

5 years

@GerjanDev @jaredpar @billwagner It composes better. Assume a is a complex expression. In the `switch (a) { ... }` syntax the `switch` and the `{ ... }` would get separated by that complex expression. With `a switch { ... }` you can fluently compute something, then switch on it.

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@MadsTorgersen

7 years

Uh-oh, here I go again...

roslyn

@roslyn

7 years

Join @MadsTorgersen and @kuhlenhuth tomorrow as they talk about @roslyn and #VisualStudio2017 ! #csharp #productivity #live

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@MadsTorgersen

3 years

@unknown6656 @jaredpar Discriminated unions are not going to make C# 10. Records need a little more time to play out before I think we're ready to make some of the core decisions around discriminated unions. They are still very much on the radar though!

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@MadsTorgersen

8 years

@dotnet @saucehammer Because our type inference algorithm is a little too dumb. We want to fix it, but never got around to it.

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@MadsTorgersen