Get the feeling that a lot of American leftists are really annoyed (or completely unaware) that South African apartheid was ended at a boring negotiating table and not in a gloriously bloody revolution
My great-grandfather fled from Poland to Palestine; the rest of his family who stayed behind in Poland were all killed. I am not Polish. I am not "from" Poland. I have never been to Poland, and if I went for the first time it wouldn't be going "back"
Maybe I'm biased because I'm in the group in question but I don't think that "there's a whole nationality of people who are simply wicked and worse than all other people, but leftistly" is a great road to be going down
Diane and her late husband moved to the Bay Area over 30 years ago. Since then, she has watched the area change: โItโs overcrowded now. It used to be lovely, you know โ you had space, you had no traffic. Here it was absolutely a gorgeous place."
To preempt more stupid QTs: no, it wasn't all nice and peaceful, but the goal of what violence there was was a negotiated agreement to share power, not to outright violently overthrow the old regime. If that's what you want for I/P too then great, I'm not talking about you
@cholent_lover
So does, say, New Yorker culture, but these same people definitely aren't calling New Yorkers "revolting" and "viscerally unpleasant", there's a difference between annoying and "fucking rude and annoying freaks"
@clenchner
Sure, and I'm as quick to make fun of Israeli rudeness as anyone, but there's a difference between rolling your eyes and declaring millions evil. Paris had to run a similar campaign a few years ago, but no one tried using Parisian rudeness to justify the Bataclan massacre
From anti-BDS laws to this, I am totally baffled that so many American Zionists seem to think it would help Israel or Jews to create the impression that Israel controls what you are and aren't allowed to say in the US
jonathan greenblatt, the president of the ADL, posted a video outside of the columbia university campus today that included a call to "bring in the national guard."
@moorehn
Why canโt Israelis just say their food is bagels, lox, knishes, etc and call it a day? Settlers always bring their culinary traditions with them. A much more benign example is how doubles and curried goat are Trinidadian staples, because of the south Asians brought there
@BrytonsThoughts
How many additional black deaths would have been worth it to nationalize the land and keep a paramilitary? Is there a number you have in mind?
All of the ways you're talking about Israelis are the exact same ways Israelis talk about Palestinians and you correctly recognize those as wrong. I don't accept that "they're all ontologically evil" is true of any population and it's just a matter of determining which one
Gentiles do not engage with Ashkenormativity discourse for your own good, you absolutely cannot handle it. I've seen how much you struggle with entry level stuff like "are Jews an ethnicity", the advanced material will melt your brains like you just opened the Ark
@azforeman
This discourse has revealed that so many Americans apparently believe that you can just move to whatever country you want and that country will just let you
@bluehorsetower
If you don't want me to take cheap shots then don't make it so cheap to take shots at you. You're correct about the diversity of tactics required, which is why I'm criticizing the people who are putting all their chips on violence alone instead
Hate the implication that any manifestation of queer existence in Israel is just external hasbara and not an internal discourse
"Pride in Tel Aviv? Don't they know that Israel has no gay marriage?? ๐๐"
Yes they do?? Trying to change that is part of why they're having Pride!!
During Pride Week, Tel Aviv is displaying special pride flags across the city featuring a widened yellow stripe to honor the +120 hostages still captive in Gaza.
We want to share it as a reminder that they are in our thoughts every moment.
Thank you,
@TelAviv
๐
Ignoring the hostages' cause is a huge strategic mistake for the US ceasefire movement, aligning with their families would be one of the best ways to win over skeptics but instead they've ceded the ground entirely to warmongers pushing for the opposite of what the families want
@Captain_Fubar
It's wild when people are like "if a politician does something good to get votes it doesn't count" like buddy that's how democracy works
I don't think anyone making excuses like "well the bad protestors were on the other side of a fence from the good protestors" and "well the protestors didn't literally physically assault anyone yet" would accept any of those excuses for a protest whose cause they disagreed with
What if it's not that deep and as used by liberals it literally just means "global warming is real and we should do something about it", "teach evolution and not creationism in schools", and as of 2020 "the pandemic is real and we should do something about it"
โbelieve in scienceโ as a liberal truism is the most dystopian shit ever. the moment science becomes seen as a body of dogma codified by and accessible only to a caste of credentialed technocrats rather than a method/process always constrained by context, it ceases to be science
@IHateNYT
What makes you think Israelis can just go "back" to Poland, Hungary, Morocco, Iraq, Yemen, or any of the other countries their grandparents were ethnically cleansed from and where they have no citizenship?
@boofero
Well the difference is that they still identify with Palestine and want to go "back" whereas the descendants of Polish Jews overwhelmingly don't
The Eastern European bagel that made it to Israel is just a kind of bread not particularly associated with any other ingredients, the whole bagels lox schmear culture is entirely a post-immigration North American development and is considered American food in Israel
Centrists: *take over Labour, lose*
Leftists: See, only the left can win!
Leftists: *take over Labour, lose*
Centrists: See, only the center can win!
Centrists: *take over Labour, lose*
Leftists: See, only the left can win!
@cholent_lover
@mrgreengenes_
Do any leftists say that? Even the fringe that justify 9/11 do it on the basis of US imperialism etc, not that NYers ontologically suck
Gunning down a festival or house to house executions in towns aren't distinct from 9/11 just because they also killed soldiers on the same day
@ArianTheDOn888
@GwansunRyu
Genocide is always evil and the reason why has nothing to do with whether the victims or the perpetrators are on their ~rightful native land~
@cholent_lover
@mrgreengenes_
No I don't think going from house to house inside kibbutzim was "on the way to military targets". They clearly sought out civilian targets to attack in their own right, and that they also attacked military targets doesn't absolve them of that any more than it would the IDF
Most Israelis would be surprised to learn that bagels are the quintessential Jewish food here, or that brisket is the classic holiday food, the most popular Ashkenazi food there is schnitzel which is not really Jewish here, gefilte fish is shared but just as infamously polarizing
For Israel to invade Gaza at the expense of a hostage deal would be morally evil, strategically idiotic, and insane all around, which means it's probably what will happen
Why are leftists so obsessed with proving that liberals are irredeemably evil, like ok cool you proved that your fringe subculture's only potential allies actually aren't and can't be, what now
@EmissaryOfNight
The failure of Oslo and aftermath of the Gaza disengagement is falsely perceived by Israelis as "we offered them everything they could have wanted and they still kept trying to kill us", so they conclude that Palestinians aren't acting on legitimate or rational grievances
@BlighttownNIMBY
@ettingermentum
-founding Ashkenazi establishment was left-wing so those opposed to it naturally gravitated right
-greater suspicion and hostility towards Arabs due to having been ethnically cleansed from Arab countries
-more religiously observant
@Felixandres77
I would also be happy to see every settler dragged out of the West Bank kicking and screaming but clearly there are many people for whom that wouldn't be enough
It's insane that talking about the hostages has come to have an anti-ceasefire salience in the US when it has a pro-ceasefire salience in Israel itself and it's not something the pro-ceasefire movement should allow
People don't vote rationally based on policy, they vote instinctively based on culture war. Many will support left-wing policies like wage increases and drug legalization but reject even moderately liberal politicians as too left-wing
@RiverTamYDN
Also because it's one of the things that zoomers are most likely to buy so they can feel like they're doing something by not buying it / shame their peers for still buying it
Israel isn't even in the top ten in the league of horror since the Nazis, let alone in all of human history. That's not a defense of Israel - the history of mankind is extremely horrible!
@revhowardarson
You just know that if they had kept all the Arabic and Islamic references the same all the exact same people would be criticizing them just as harshly for appropriation and stereotyping instead
@momkenmena
@ajlayon
And I've criticized that extensively, what's your point? Saying we can only talk about whatever is the biggest problem at any given time is how the rest of the problems get bigger
The lesson here is that the Republicans will never accept anything less than absolute power, and will be outraged if anyone even from their own side asks them to maybe just settle for like 95% power
Why are leftists so obsessed with proving who's ontologically evil? There's no such thing as a Good or Bad Person, people's behavior is determined by their material conditions, scolding people to simply Be Better doesn't work at scale, you have to change their incentive structure
i think being israeli and not openly, proudly, and ardently against the genocidal regime with every living fiber of your being makes you a downright evil person
@GoldwagNathan
Well there is also the factor that non-German Jews didn't realize how directly the Nazis threatened them too, looking at the discourse about Jewish refugees in the 30s it's all about German Jews, no one seems to have conceived that all other Jews in Europe might need refuge too
@NadavPollak
This is backwards logic. "It wouldn't make sense for the IDF to target aid workers, so it must not have happened." Ok but the evidence is staring us in the face that it clearly did happen!
@TechnoEmpress
If North African countries didn't want Israel to "coopt" their food then maybe they shouldn't have expelled their Jewish populations to Israel, the appropriation of Palestinian cuisine is one thing but to act like the North African countries are the victims here is ridiculous
@madisontayt_
What is the threshold of being against the regime with enough ardent fibers to no longer deserve death and what are you as an American doing to meet it
This is the moment of truth, the protesters in Israel need to shut down the entire country until there's a deal and Bibi is out, enough is enough (and has been for months)