Zarbian @dwazarbian Twitter profile

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

Major Update!

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

Perhaps my biggest project yet... The Y-DNA Composition of (Rural) West Moroccan Arabs. All thanks goes to everyone that contributed to the map! I tried my best to find as many varied samples as possible, but this is all I could get my hands on while avoiding duplication.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

The Y-DNA Haplogroup composition of Northern Kurds (a.k.a. Kurmanj). I will be updating this as I find more results (Note that the samples from 23andme matches might require another revision to make sure that each one of them is Kurmanji, but as it stands, this should be good).

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

Another project completed. Thanks to everyone who took their time to list down their matches, and inexplicable amounts of thanks to my close friend @Vinnyoyo for contacting these people to get this project done.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

Small update.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

4 months

Had formatted Y-STR data of the Reguibat just sitting around, so decided to go through it again and make a use out of it. The specific subclades are mostly unreliable. Only 17 markers were available. Study used: Tool used:

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

26/12/2023 Update. Fixed some issues and added more samples. Made sure not to duplicate any results (especially with the Kurdish DNA facebook and FTDNA), and I hope that I did a good job at that.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

A subclade of haplogroup J1 that I find especially interesting is FGC1723>FGC8712. So I made this chart of some sort based on the FTDNA tree to try visualizing the current state it's in.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

+ Yazidis are also Kurmanj, and a good amount of Muslim Kurmanj today come from a Yazidi historical background. However, I have chosen not to include them in this chart, and perhaps make (or not) another one for them in the future.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

5 months

Hello everyone. Some might be wondering why the updates on the Kurmanj chart have slowed down. I actually acquired a lot of newer results, but the problem is that the overwhelming majority of samples, in a very serious way, are Western Bakurîs. So I am waiting for more 👉🏻

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

As of the current version, around ≈17% of the R1a can be linked to Indo-Iranian migrations into the region, with the remaining tiny amount being under clades more common today among Balto-Slavic-speaking populations.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

Small misspellings fixed. Third time I post this in the wrong place/with an issue. That says something. 😂

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@asteraex @IbnBeisan @Rozekurdno @5Haifawis Yeah, it is an ordinary BMAC sample. Intermediate between high Seh_Gabi types and high Turan_En types from the same site. Target: UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA:I7420 Distance: 2.2935% / 0.02293478 57.2 TKM_Tepe_Anau_En 35.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C 4.8 IRN_Helmand_EMBA_oHighAASI 2.6 KAZ_Dali_EBA

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

That comes across any of the aforementioned things while paging through historical works, preferably the the period before and during the Ayyubids' reign. I have already collected some, but the more, the better.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

Hello everyone. Something severely overlooked by linguists is the decent amount of personal/tribal/place names of early/high medieval Kurdish groups, which are important in piecing together the linguistic history of Kurdish. This is a call of some sort for anyone 👉🏻

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

5 months

Kurmanj results from Central/Eastern Bakûr, Başûr and Rojhilat to have a better general idea. If I at some point acquire an even larger amount of results from most areas, I might even make a regional map. But that doesn't seem to me as a thing of the close future.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Liquidashm Possible, we'll need more Q1b Kurmanj to tell. My guess though is that most of it will be Turkic-mediated; a lot of Scythians were absorbed during the ethnogenesis of Turks. You'll come across several clades under Q1b, R1a and even J2a that were spread around by them as a result.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@grossintimuse69 Yep, here are the Dersimis. This is from a few months ago. Credit to @sabmiester . The majority of Alevi Zazas with R1b are under an Armenian clade called PH3610. Very big founder effect. You can check out the Dérsim DNA project on FTDNA for the samples.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Faseeh1514489 @Indushistory47 Yes. J1 formed ≈20,000 years ago, perhaps in Iran or the Caucasus. Its movement across the region, including into the Arabian peninsula, is a long story. Today you have lines that are Arab, most prominently J-Y10887 which formed ≈3100 years ago. You also have non-Arab lines.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@5Haifawis Well I'll mention a big one: a particularly large clade is Z36520>Y164809. A surprisingly big amount of Kurmanj from the Elbistan-Malatya area seem to have it. Doesn't look connected to any neighboring group.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Helioprogenus @nrken19 Most of the R1b in Kurmanj seems to predate the medieval westward migrations, including the (so far) dominant subclade. It must be related to the large amounts of Pontic steppe dwellers (chiefly Catacomb-derived) that moved into Iran during the bronze age.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Helioprogenus @nrken19 Indeed, the overwhelming majority of R1b clades in Kurmanj have to do with the long-standing movements of Steppe groups into the region through the Caucasus.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

Fix: The Q1b sample is actually Q2. I will make sure to fix this in the upcoming version.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@asteraex @IbnBeisan @Rozekurdno @5Haifawis (Here I only used averages made out of the updated official samples) Target: Uzbekistan_SappaliTepe_BA:I7420 Distance: 2.6306% / 0.02630577 57.2Turkmenistan_C_TepeAnau 33.6IRN_Seh_Gabi_C 6.0 IRN_Helmand_EMBA_oHighAASI 2.0Kazakhstan_Dali_EBA 1.2Russia_MLBA_Sintashta

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Rozekurdno @5Haifawis

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@WickedTrapper @Vinnyoyo First things first: the attached map is far from reality. The Z2103 subclade of R1b originated on the Steppe and was spread by Yamnaya and Yamnaya-derived cultures. It is as a result of these migrations that Iron Age Hasanlu has it.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@WickedTrapper @Vinnyoyo And for Laks, as far as I know, most of the ones in Iran are R1b and J2. Those in Haymanaya on the other hand are surprisingly dominated by R1a-Z282, which implies a founder effect in my opinion.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Helioprogenus @nrken19 In the context of Iran, these "ARM_LBA" groups are especially relevant to the bronze/iron age people of the Lake Urmia region, yes. There is also a case to be made that their impact, genetically at least, is also very relevant across other parts of northern and northwestern Iran.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Rozekurdno @Vinnyoyo Of Mesopotamian origin? There are samples, yeah. Assyrians today are mostly derived from that, together with additional ≈25-30% ancestry related to Steppe-rich bronze age samples from Armenia, who can also be linked to the high concentration of R1b-Z2013 in Assyrians today.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Faseeh1514489 @Indushistory47 Only a few people.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Afghan_DNA Thanks for pointing that out! I faintly remember there being Srubnaya under Z280 but I didn't look for them before making this. To be specific, the Kurds are under CTS3402. Is there any indication for the basal Z280 Srubnos being positive to it, or are they defenitely basal?

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Afghan_DNA Thanks a lot, I have seen these. I've gone through the Qashqais actually and they have a lot of very interesting clades!

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@asteraex @IbnBeisan @Rozekurdno @5Haifawis It doesn't need Steppe_MLBA, but when included scores around ≈1%.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@MMohamed48106 I am very late to the party, but CTS6 peaks my interest so I had to comment: Your family's paternal line most likely derives from the local Iranian population that dwelt in the region. R-CTS6 has a very solid Western Iranic distribution and looks to be connected with the Medes.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

"Tear in reality" Krita saves the day. Genuinely.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@asteraex @Rozekurdno @5Haifawis I have recently gotten a lot more G2a (defenitely this subclade, given that they're from the area I mentioned) than what was included in this update. I'll make sure to add them in for the next one. Pretty awesome!

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

Download for higher resolution.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@WickedTrapper @Vinnyoyo With that being said, J2a is definitely one of the dominant lines among Kurds, and in many regions/sub-groups it is THE dominant one.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Liquidashm @Metal_Terium As soon as we have enough deep clade Q1b samples I'll try to go through them. So far most of the Q is Q2 as you can see, mainly L245 if I am not mistaken. Some might disagree but I personally believe that it was imported west by the Indo-Iranians from South Central Asia.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

I kind of prefer the coloring of the last chart, but the website I use for making them colors the charts automatically.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Faseeh1514489 @Indushistory47 Not all of it is Arab. Only a handful of people got Arab clades (lineages). Off the top of my head, I remember a few with FGC4453. It is linked to Banū Rabīʿah.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@HshhdHzhh Not enough results from there, unfortunately.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Yeah, for the matches I told my informant to make sure that the matches he collects are Kurmanj and not Zazas. The rest of the samples are all confirmed Kurmanj. R1b has a very solid presence among Kurmanj, most of the clades likely predating medieval mingling with Armenians.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@MeeharRoman I don't have a figure specific to E1b1b. V13 exists in Kurmanj but isn't very common. There's a Pinyanshi from Urmia who got it for example. The overwhelming majority of the E1b1b Kurmanji samples are M84.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Liquidashm @Metal_Terium Quick update on the Q1b: I have looked for the sample and it turns out to actually be Q2. I will fix this in the next version, God-willing.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Helioprogenus @nrken19 Dersim is such an interesting place. Its inhabitants influenced one another in many ways, and even more there was much preserved from old days (there are some links between certain saintly figures and divinities from older faiths). But the 1937-1938 genocide hit hard.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

A larger update is on the way. I just got a ton of Kurmanji matches shared with me by someone.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Helioprogenus @nrken19 I should also be specific: most of the time when I say "R1b in Kurmanj" I specifically mean PF7562 and Z2103. That aside, Alevi Zazas in Dersim have an interesting medieval Armenian founder effect (R-PH3610).

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@MMohamed48106 Digging conducted by my friend @AdarHoshang has also shown that Ashkenazim are under many Western Iranic clades from various haplo's. CTS6 does not look to be connected to Scythian groups, unlike certain R1a clades that show up in Turkic groups, such as R-FGC56440.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@Faseeh1514489 @Indushistory47 I haven't come across any myself unfortunately.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@HshhdHzhh For the 3 main haplogroups: 3ro_North J1 75.6 M81 11.1 V65 0 3ro_South J1 45.3 M81 15.6 V65 17.2 Tadla J1 0 M81 18.2 V65 75.8 Chaouia (not inc Casa) J1 18.9 M81 50.9 V65 7.5 Doukkala J1 26 M81 20 V65 16 Jdida J1 8.2 M81 32.7 V65 34.7 Rabat J1 24.5 M81 42.2 V65 6.9

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@AbelardoMba No, the ‘Urūbi data is mostly from a facebook project dedicated to gathering Moroccan Arab results. However, to balance things out, I also included data from an E-M81 umap, and some people I know were kind enough to share their 23andme matches + some data from private umaps.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@PreTecno I went specific with the R1a/R1b because my main focus lies in the ancient Indo-European impact (Iranic and non-Iranic) on Kurmanj. I also am not a fan of GEDmatch results. However, you can always ask me which subclade of a certain haplogroup dominates. I'll be happy to answer!

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Nah but he also claims to be sayyid 😂. The Nahri family are completely different. And as for Harkiyan, they seem to have always been Sunni Muslims (their first appearance in history isn't that old from what I could gather).

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Rozekurdno L51 is most common in Western and Central Europe. There it relates to the migration of Corded Ware tribes into the region, succeeded by the Bell Beaker Culture.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Rozekurdno MyTrueAncestry doesn't actually tell one's haplogroup. Are you the one who tested? If yes, and you're Kurmanji, can you try this? I'd be happy.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Nah I don't think so because I don't interact there a lot. 😅 I don't count the Jews because they weren't even Kurdish-speaking, they had their own Neo-Aramaic dialect. I more so had some Faylis and Kurmanj in mind.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Another big update is on the way, this time with the result and matches of a Kurd from a very under-tested region! The more samples we get the more I think this can change. R1b seems to have a good concentration among the Reshwan in central Anatolia. Likewise in Khorasan.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Yeah the core clans of the tribe are claim to be Barzanji Sayyids. The nationalism part is funny though, I am in part from the Nahri family who also claim Sayyid descent while having many important figures in the history of the Kurdish independence movement. 😂

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Looking at your profile, are you from Kirkuk itself or a nearby town? Unfortunately the region of Garmiyan isn't the best-sampeled. I was very happy though to see a new result recently from the Jabbari tribe, with haplogroup E1b1b!

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo All included.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo I have seen J1 and R1a in them yeah. I haven't tested yet but my father is Harki.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

6 months

@AriyanNewzad @Faseeh1514489 @Indushistory47 Z1884 isn't really specific enough, but a lot of Kurds do indeed fall under subclades stemming from it.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Liquidashm @Metal_Terium *exported

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@ArabianKaiser7 Yielded a very significant amount of the M87 subclade of E1b1b, which is ancestral to V65, V22, V12 and V13. Given that the study managed to get specific on the latter three, but there remaining 46 samples with M87*, I think it's possible that a section can be V65, AllahuAlam.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo Yep you're right, a lot of Faylis are actually Luri.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@helenazad3 @Vinnyoyo A lot of Faylis are more southern-shifted than the rest of Kurds, into the Luri cluster. Some Alevi Kurmanj cluster with Azeris because of mingling with Alevi Turks, I've seen a result like that from Çorum. Some Kurmanj are also unusually Armenian/Assyrian-mixed.

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Zarbian

@dwazarbian

7 months

@Rozekurdno @Vinnyoyo *Z2103

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