Greek millions financing a state-driven disinformation campaign to get the
#ElginMarbles
away from
@britishmuseum
. It won't succeed, not on my watch. History must be respected: all of it, not just the parts we like.
via
@YouTube
@c_k_lynch
If they are worried about the cost, they should do like the Stadtschloss in Berlin: public money for the structure, crowdfunding for the exterior. I bet they'd find the money in no time
@corncommunist
This is the passport requested by
#LordElgin
to allow his in-laws into the
#OttomanEmpire
. Lord
#Byron
needed one just like that, which I believe is in
#Oxford
now and whose tughra John Cam Hobhouse studiously copied. Elgin himself had to ask for passports like this when he went
What do we need to do to get competent people to address complex topics on TV?
- One says the Elgin Marbles were "paid for" by Elgin on behalf of the Government --> FALSE (they were granted to him, in a personal capacity)
- The host (a Greek himself) jumps on to correct the
"Make peace in regards to slavery and colonialism."
"That is where it ends."
@AytonImarn
and
@AliMirajUK
discuss the Parthenon marbles and the British Museum's history of housing foreign artefacts.
@alexisconran
|
#AlexisConran
@pitchblacksteed
For me it must be "my most sincere contrafibularities" and "as cunning as a fox appointed professor of Cunning at Oxford University" 😀
@OptimoPrincipi
And they have it in a green one-handle version too, for the most exigent buyers!
The buyers, by the way, are reminded to spare a thought for Ennion during their libations, as the message on the other side of the cup says:
🇬🇷 ΕΝΝΙΩΝ ΕΠΟΙΗCΕΝ / ΜΝΗ[C]ΘΗ Ο ΑΓΟΡΑΖΩΝ
🇬🇧 Ennion made
@TerribleMaps
They are actually all correct, just the transparency of the globe has not been set right, so the map is showing places from the other side of the planet.
Theft? Theft? This is the dumbest and most illiterate assertion about this topic ever!
Basically, what you want people to believe is that a foreigner was able to hire 400 local people, bring them into a military base, take pretty bulky and heavy items under the nose of the very
How could the
#Greek
representative at the
#MissUniverse2023
beauty pageant miss an opportunity to make a trendy statement of belief?
Instead of advocating for world peace or ending global poverty, she chose to ask people to "take our history back" instead, emblazoning the
Baroness Chakrabarti obstinately refusing to accept what historians have long established: that the
#ElginMarbles
were legitimately acquired with permission by the lawful power appropriate for the time and place, and in the general indifference of those people who only a few
Glad to be a guest this morning on
@TalkTV
, talking about the
#ElginMarbles
.
I had the opportunity to explain what they are, to confirm -once again- that they were not stolen but granted, and how they came to be in the
#britishmuseum
.
A bit sad to see my opponent, Prof. K.
@MattColeWorks
@corncommunist
I am not sure an article on the Guardian can be quoted as a reliable source of scientific knowledge.
I would prefer to rely on Sir William Gell and Lird Byron who, granting the fact that a travelling firman (=passport) was needed, were quarrelling on whether it was necessary
#OTD
1766 Thomas Bruce was born in Fife, at Broomhall Hall, the son of the 5th Earl of Elgin and the 9th Earl of Kincardine.
A military man and a successful diplomat,
#LordElgin
was nominated British ambassador to Constantinople in 1799.
In 1801, once he obtained permission
@IGMansfield
Not only is it biased, but it is also incorrect and imprecise.
"Parthenon sculptures" is a name that encompasses the totality of the sculptural decoration of the Parthenon, wherever the items may be located. It includes the part that is in Athens as well as the part that is in
Well said
@timloughton
on
#ElginMarbles
:
"It is deeply worrying that Keir Starmer is considering treating cultural treasures such as the Elgin Marbles as political trading opportunities to curry favour with other nations."
Nobody can serve two masters. Cllr Cummings cannot be part of the cabinet that wants to close down the library in
#SouthNoreood
, vote in favour of the plan, and then speak up for the library to remain open. Actions speak louder than words!
#snlibrary
#Croydon
#Section114
We may not agree on everything, but the book written by
@artlawalex
will long remain in the list of fundamental reading for anyone interested in the
#ElginMarbles
controversy.
Where books like those by Titi and Robertson appear just historically illiterate hissy fits, the one
In this uncertain hour we need somebody at the helm who is absolutely clear on where the red lines are, and who is prepared to defend them. The next PM must have both the resolve and the international profile to credibly be that person. I support
#lizforleader
!
#testedtruss
Welcome to your daily dose of
#ElginMarbles
realism. I know you needed a fix, so there you go.
In the below interview from July 2009, the Greek architect Manolis Korres, coordinator of the restoration works on the Acropolis, and probably the only person on the planet who
"It would be an act of gross cultural vandalism to break up its collection by removing its most important possession in the service of modern Greek nationalism."
Very readable and crafted defence of the
#ElginMarbles
by Lord Sumption, former justice of the Supreme Court.
"The
Ah, and I was just forgetting the ridiculous claim that the British Museum would be giving away their share of the Benin Bronzes, which is not only FALSE but also ludicrous because the Benin Bronzes can't move for precisely the same reason the Elgin Marbles can't: the British
Baroness
@Fox_Claire
comes also to the rescue, recommending "all DCMS ministers treat themselves with Dr
@tiffanyjenkins
's book" and condemning the claim because "like so much Philistine politicized use of the past to score contemporary identitarian points, it bears little
I knew
@SadiqKhan
would be ready to jump on the woke anticultural crusade against the
#BritishMuseum
.
Little he understands about the unique cultural role played by the
#ElginMarbles
in the history of our culture, and of
#London
in particular. Even less he knows about the
One would expect a more solid cultural foundation from someone who has been appointed as a trustee of the British Museum, and maybe even a bit of knowledge of the impact such an important part of the museum collection had on British and Western cultural history.
And yet, she
I don't actually know what this dude is saying about the
#ParthenonFrieze
(not the
#ElginMarbles
!)...but cultural appropriation is as old as human kind.
Let's deal with THAT fact, too.
And whoever and whatever was responsible for the fiasco that involved the PM of
#Greece
...
Even IF you were to give back all the pieces of the Parthenon on the basis of a contested acquisition by Elgin, there is a metope (South VI) that you could not possibly send back on the same motivation.
This metope, broken in three pieces, was stolen (truly this time) by the
How could the
#Greek
representative at the
#MissUniverse2023
beauty pageant miss an opportunity to make a trendy statement of belief?
Instead of advocating for world peace or ending global poverty, she chose to ask people to "take our history back" instead, emblazoning the
@NigelBiggar
Some contemporary historians seem to have decided to abandon every effort at historicization of the facts they ought to reconstruct, deciding that it is much more fun to engage in collective ideological mythopoetics
"So used are we, today, to thinking of 'modern Greece' as an offshoot of ancient Greece, it can be hard to realize that for many of the centuries separating classical antiquity from ourselves no such sense of affinity existed among Greek speakers."
Roderick Beaton, Greece.
Another prime minister joins into the nationalist attack against the British Museum.
I recommend he reads
@NigelBiggar
's latest book on
#colonialism
before pushing forward with baseless accusations and unevidenced claims made only to strengthen his standing at home and abroad
Unlike
@PiersUncensored
to be duped by cheap state propaganda! Let me break it down for you, if I may:
- the Mona Lisa example you fell for is totally bonkers, because the Greeks have no intention whatsoever of putting back the sculptures on the temple, which would be the only
"Greece is one of our allies, they're friends. They gave us feta cheese, olive oil and Stavros Flatley...
"It’s time we gave them our marbles in return."
Piers Morgan's latest monologue on the Elgin Marbles 👇
@piersmorgan
|
@TalkTV
|
#PMU
"The
#BritishMuseum
is not only an encyclopedic museum, it is also British: a museum of who we are, where every item tells us our own history. "
Watch my latest intervention of the
#ElginMarbles
debate yesterday at Sunday with Michael Portillo on
@GBNEWS
#ParthenonSculptures
Did you know that 3 out of the 12 labours of Herakles are in
#Paris
while the rest are in the
#Olympia
Museum?
Is this influential sculptural cycle less deserving of reunification than that from the
#Parthenon
, according to the Greeks? And yet, not once have they asked the
The debate would be so much easier if media outlets could make an effort to portray the truth about the
#ElginMarbles
. Good quality journalism matters.
Here you go,
@ABC
. Now your graphic from yesterday's article by
@kiaraalfonseca
is way more accurate
In Paris, checking out the original of the Greek
#restitution
claim for the
#ElginMarbles
from 1984 at
#UNESCO
headquarters!
Lovely to see that they are consistently called Elgin Marbles throughout, and that the original request does in fact claim all of the elements from the
@theoldbuilding
The frieze running over the first floor windows is an exact replica of the
#ElginMarbles
created by John Henning.
It costed £1,300 and was commissioned by the President of the club, John Wislon Croker, who went against the wishes of the majority of the members who wanted an
Only in the
#BritishMuseum
can you truly understand what a Caryatid really is: an Ionic column dressed up!
The Acropolis Museum display, all modern that it may well be, fails to present the true essence of these marvellous objects, preferring the cheap "political point"
Perusing
@CatharineTiti
's new book about the
#ParthenonSculptures
and international law, one encounters the most absurd & hyperbolic accusations.
After having assumed the airs of a new Cicero pursuing Elgin-Verres, she writes (p. 6-7): "According to the list of expenses he
Luckily
@DanielJHannan
was there to argue against sentimentalism, saying "this is not the relevant criterion; the relevant criterion is one of ownership. And if -as my noble friend Lord Frost said- these [sculptures] are the foundation of Western art, then surely free contract is
Any idea of how can George Osborne be removed from his position at the British Museum? It is clear as day he is not willing to respect the spirit of the law, and every day he passes on that chair, it is a day of increased risk for the integrity of the collection.
#ElginMarbles
Good to see that, once people are exposed to arguments on both sides of the
#ElginMarbles
debate, the votes tend to balance out across both fields. This is a clear demonstration that the UK public support for restitution is all due to ignorance and/or superficiality.
Hence why
What a fantastic conversation I just had with
@olliewcq
about the
#ElginMarbles
(and the rest of the
#ParthenonSculptures
, of course)! We could have gone on for another couple of hours for sure, proof that you don't have to be on the same side of a debate to enjoy it. Actually, I
@borislavka
@britishmuseum
Who to?
To the French? Because that's who we got it from.
To the Ottomans maybe? Because this is who it legally belonged to, if we refuse to recognise the right of c9nquest to the French. In this case we would have to ship it to Ankara, as Türkiye is the successor state for the
Whenever someone tells you that the British Museum damaged the
#ElginMarbles
, "using copper wire brushes and acid" show them this video and ask them:
how can the alleged damage have been so great when we are still able to observe so many details of the colour and shapes painted
Automatic building protection orders (
#BPO
) for every building as soon as a listing request is filed? It may be a temporary solution, but I would love to see something more structural.
The more profound question, when it comes to
#CrookedHouse
, is this: why was a building
One of the most astonishing things about yesterday's presentation of the book "The Parthenon Marbles debate" by
@artlawalex
was that there were no representatives of the
@BCRPM
,
@UniteParthenon
or any other of the many restitutionist associations ( could they not reunite
#OTD
Happy birthday, John!
"My spirit is too weak—mortality
Weighs heavily on me like unwilling sleep,
And each imagined pinnacle and steep
Of godlike hardship tells me I must die
Like a sick eagle looking at the sky.
Yet ’tis a gentle luxury to weep
That I have not the cloudy
Did you know that the Archaeological Museum in
#Athens
has its own share of looted objects from the time of the
#Greek
military expedition in
#AsiaMinor
1919-1922?
They even systematically used the army in order to collect as many "Hellenic" items as possible and to conduct
The (New) Acropolis Museum really is a re-imagined museum: from the museum of the stuff you do have, to the museum of the stuff you would like to have.
Unfortunately for them, there is no amount of "storytelling" that can stack up against History and Law
& yet the re-imagining of museum spaces when some artefacts are returned to their country of origin, is a great opportunity to open up the dialogue between communities, turning the story telling holistic, engaging + educational. Time to achieve that for the
#ParthenonMarbles
.
1/5
I finally got round to reading
@artlawalex
insightful book about
#restitution
. Glad to see legality of Elgin's acquisition of the
#ParthenonSculptures
duly recognised. Yet, doubts still being sown on things that should be clear & pacific for everybody, like sovereignty on Athens
For those funny people who keep arguing about
#LordElgin
violently stripping the marbles from the building, I invite them to consider the position of the frieze within the cellar of the
#Parthenon
.
You see that big empty space that was once occupied by the walls of the cellar,
Sometimes I think the erection of Acropolis Museum, far from being a reason for repatriation of
#ElginMarbles
, may well be seen as one against it. Concrete & glass boxes like this will crumble away in 50/100 years, with no one regretting their demise. BM passed the test of time
Baroness Bennett tells the audience with a straight face that she wants Britain to stand for the
#ruleoflaw
while simultaneously wanting to quash a legitimate acquisition and not one but two decisions of Parliament on the merit of this acquisition.
Today at noon (just after the news), I am talking about the
#ElginMarbles
with Michael Portillo and guests on
@GBNews
.
I will tell him why it is right we have them, why we should keep them, and why the Greek claim is a load of hypocritical rubbish.
Don't miss it!
Mendacious-Mendoni gets a good grilling in the Greek parliament because of her schizophrenic handling of public communication about her government's
#ParthenonSculptures
policy.
One minute, she says Greek antiquities are the heritage of the world; the next, she wants all the
@RobertAtkinso14
@WalkerMarcus
There are problems with your point of view:
- the way a museum displays its exhibit cannot be used as an excuse to deny its property rights over the object. I am sure there are plenty of museums around the world with crappy displays and that many items would look better in the
@NigelBiggar
talking about the "unscrupulous indifference to historical truth" in the activist battles over historical facts and figures. He is of course right: "it's all about the present, not the past". And it perfectly applies to the
#ElginMarbles
debate as well as the
#Empire
A great campaign to publicly commemorete one of the most proud moments of the Royal Navy, the contribution of the West Africa Sqadron to the abolition of the slave trade!
It was called the most expensive moral action in history, but there is no monument or memorial to the Royal Navy’s West Africa Squadron. This year, in Portsmouth, we will put that right. To support this effort please visit
@portsmouthnews
"Museums are susceptible to ideological manipulation. What they present about the past or how they tell their “story” is never neutral; rather, it may give us insights into concepts or attitudes towards this past".
In those museums, "displays become an entirely new ideological
I've just been speaking with
@NickyAACampbell
on
@bbc5live
I told him how Rishi Sunak was right to put a stop to this constant nonsense of an illegitimate request being repeated over and over again. The
#ElginMarbles
were NOT stolen, and there are plenty of documents to prove
Very well done
@artlawalex
and
@tiffanyjenkins
on the hour-long segment about the
#ElginMarbles
on
@IainDale
's radio show on
@LBC
!
Such an effort still needs to be made to educate people to the fine detail of this matter, as demonstrated by the comments of some of the callers.
@arthistorynews
Precisely. In 1707 both England and Scotland surrendered the sovereignty of their parliaments to the newly created UK Parliament, which since then is the only one that can vote to enter or leave anything. Scottish Parliament of 2022 simply is not as powerful as that of 1707
Jokes aside, I want to tell all commentators, journalists, and opinion makers: go buy this book, as it is well worth your time. It will give you a fairly good idea of how intricate and complex this issue of the
#ElginMarbles
is, a far cry from the black-and-white portrait of it
I'd like to thank Prime Minister
@RishiSunak
for his amazing work over the past 48 hours helping to promote my recent book, The Parthenon Marbles Dispute: Heritage, Law, Politics
@Matt_Severn
We do recognise the legitimacy of the Ottoman sovereignty over Athens, and so did HM Government in 1799 when they sent Elgin as ambassador. Just in the same way as Byron recognised it, when he applied for a passport in order to visit Greece.
The fact that we decided in 1827
It is pretty interesting to think that some of the Greek freedom fighters were killing Ottomans using firearms paid for by Lord Elgin! I am sure the gratitude of the Greeks back then was way more than it is now.
Don't believe what the Greek propaganda tells you, amplified by its British apologists.
Just look at the data by yourself.
People are starting to notice that there is something wrong with the Greek claim to repatriate the
#ElginMarbles
. They can smell something fishy, and it
@AlistairBarrie
@rolandmcs
Let's indulge for one moment in the consideration of your hypothesis of an illegittimate acquisition.
Can you demonstrate how could a foreigner enter a military base with 300-400 hired labourers, take numerous and cumbersome items from said base under the nose of the garrison
@CatharineTiti
And of course, since we are talking about "bribes" paid from 1803 onwards, the removal of the metopes and frieze from the Acropolis started in 1801 cannot possibly be the object the official are being "bribed" so handsomely for.
@ictinus_x
@mechanical_monk
You better do some reading, and fast.
When Elgin went to Greece (1801), the Parthenon was ALREADY a molested ruin and one that was under constant destruction on top of that.
The use of "giant saws & other tools" was not something Elgin introduced, nor was he the last one to do
@ascorbic
@c_k_lynch
What is? Not the Humboldt Forum, which is owned by the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation, which is a German federal public body (more or less like our arms lenght bodies)
Sir Noel Malcom (Oxford University), Michael Daley (ArtWatchUK), Alison Cole (TheArtNewspaper) all tell George Osborne the same thing: he would be mad to think about lending the marbles, especially now!
👍For once, I am actually favourably surprised by the equitable treatment of Lord Elgin by the BBC journalist in this article. No loaded language, reported direct quotes, and offered an unbiased representation of the facts. Bravo!
👎 No surprises from the Parthenon Project and
@LBC
are you really comfortable with the way
@mrjamesob
treats this caller? I mean, the contempt, the mocking... I get he didn't like what the caller was saying, but there are better ways! He could have meaningfully engaged
This caller accuses James O'Brien of engaging in the ‘politics of envy’ for defending Amazon warehouse workers objecting to a 35 pence pay offer.
It doesn’t go well.
@mrjamesob
@MJJRAS
@MattColeWorks
@corncommunist
It's Byron's review of Gell's work published in the Monthly Review in August 1811, and republished in the 1844 edition of Byron's Works. The snippet is from page 274 of this edition.
You can find it on Google Books too.
@harari_yuval
This is true only insofar you end up picking a side nonetheless. Refusing to pick a side makes all that understanding of the complexity and that intellectual and emotional alacrity utterly sueless, and the resultng indolence all the more culpable