Low intervention fine cider maker/silvopasture orchardist/wild apples/regenerative ag/dry farming/long term thinking
'be an apple boi amongst scythe bros'
As a very small niche alcohol producer I am here to tell you that there are, in fact, very strict packaging & labeling regulations for anything alcoholic.
Like at a certain point the dumb actually is your fault & no one can help you
My most buzzkill opinion is that we should have very strict packaging and labling regulations for anything alcoholic or with cannabis in it. Caffeine should be better labeled too
I WILL ARGUE ABOUT EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THESE
AS A CIDERMAKER I NEED YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT APPLES EXIST ON A TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE AXIS PLOT NOT A GODDAMN TART/SWEET LINE
There are no GMO grapes approved for sale, this effect is typically accomplished by spraying Gibberelic Acid (a plant hormone) on the young cluster to drive up grape size. Sometimes they'll also use Forchlorfenuron, a synthetic hormone. So this is a 'Roid grape not a GMO grape
The problem in the OP is that despite EXTREMELY CLEAR & OBVIOUS LABELING, the person approaches consumer branding as a functional illiterate. They're not *reading* the label they're *seeing* logos & filling in the blanks
Every single label we make takes a minimum of multiple weeks of back & forth review before approval, with the government typically forcing us to *remove* information about production techniques and ingredients, making the label less useful and often borderline misleading
This is why OP can look at a label with JACK DANIEL'S in seventy point font and Tennessee Whiskey in fifty point and 7.0%ABV in 65 point and still not *read* because simply *seeing* CocaCola turned their brain off
Virtually every major vertical farming co has collapsed or restructured over the last 2 years as even the dumbest VCs have realized the insurmountable economic & thermodynamic realities of the concept.
๐ฑVertical Farming is about to change dramatically our relationship to food, agriculture, land, and rural areas, as it replaces traditional farming:
It's superior in dozens of very important ways and just has one obstacle: economics, but they're improving every day
Thread ๐งต
The insidious thing about this kind of illiteracy is that it creeps in at the edges via cognitive laziness. Our brains love to pattern match to save effort!
The replies to this all suck, you don't challenge the frame of the Glengarry guy with your own frame, you neg him within *his own frame*
"Sounds like I oughta get out of here & learn from the guy who sold it to you"
Can someone who uses shipping containers on their farm/ homestead explain to me WHY NO ONE EVER PAINTS THEM TO MATCH AND LOOK LESS COMPLETELY THRASHED?!?!
The innovations you see are dependent on innovations you can't imagine. MicroLED involves high speed/high accuracy robotic pick & place of individual components down to the 5 micron level.
OKAY BY POPULAR REQUEST LET'S GET INTO THIS!
The first issue with the chart is that it puts Tart and Sweet at opposite ends of a spectrum, when in fact they're two separate axes.
Every week or so I get a tasting room visitor who doesn't know what "ABV" means, btw, and at a certain point there's just a limit to how much curriculum I can put on a label and you should probably think about your world more
It's true for fruit too! Leaving citrus aside & returning to apples, Dolgo & Wickson are some of my favorite examples of searingly high acid paired with candy-like sweetness
TFW 2yo finds a crayon stub ~somewhere~& draws all over the 130yo table you inerited & restored for your wedding table but you remind yourself that someone almost certainly jointed chickens on it at one point and it's all good & then the crayon rubs right off the Tung oil coating
There is the *consumer* supply chain that gets 25 different brands of dish soap to the grocery store, the mild disruption most people saw that was still mostly stable.
Then there's the *production* supply chain, which was an entirely different matter
Why do so many books refer to covid as producing a "supply chain collapse." Supply chains rapidly adjusted, with (usually brief) shortages along the way, and in some areas (e.g. container shipping) there was massive inflation. But "collapse" ? Like, Wendy's stayed open.
It's kind of funny/not funny to see buildings we looked at 2+ years ago for potential cidery locations STILL on the market, STILL overpriced. Can't talk about small town revitalization without talking about the boomers holding out for one last big splashy payday
-staple crops (corn wheat soy rice potatoes will *never* come from vertical systems en masse
-land in cities will *always* be orders of magnitude more expensive than cropland
-energy created by human engineering will *always* cost more than The Literal Sun
3 Little Pigs is one of those stories that feels like fairytale nonsense these days but if you ever keep a pig on *pasture* you'll find that they do indeed build themselves little elevated nest/houses of sticks & straw & rocks
Arc of this childrenโs book:
1. Wolves build brick house; pig destroys it with sledgehammer
2. Wolves build concrete house; pig destroys it with jackhammer
3. Wolves build steel bunker; pig destroys it with TNT
4. Wolves build house of flowers; pig smells roses, reforms
Soโฆ
"So it turns out we're in a discord together & didn't know it because I used to hook up with her cousin's roommate & mostly lurk there these days" at least *try* for verisimilitude when storytelling bro
one more fun fact, I've heard two different explanations of this:
A) each X corresponds to a distillation run, with more indicating finer quality
B) each X marks an additional ~20%abv (often *also* corresponding with more runs)
Everyone too excited to dunk on this to consider that the inventors *knew* about root cellars and the point is the prefab part, WHICH IS NO TRIVIAL THING IN A BUILDING ENVIRONMENT TOTALLY CRIPPLED BY CODE ENFORCEMENT
Let's recap, when I evaluate fruit I generally look at
Sugar:Specific Gravity low/high
Acidity:low/high
Acidity:sharp/tart
Tannin:low/high
Tannin:hard/soft
Aroma:low/high
Aroma:Type
Perceived Sweetness low/high
A simple 8 dimensional manifold for fruit evaluation
Now we get into Commercial Growing Methods. Those trees are going to be excessively irrigated over the course of the season in order to maximize crop size & weight. That's gonna keep the sugar levels down. Most commercially grown grocery store apples will fall SG1.040-1.060
On top of that, many of these varieties *do not* get picked at full ripeness. Those "high sugar" varieties can take a big hit off their maximum potential this way, consequently I've seen Granny Smith measure the same as Red Delicious or Macoun or Honeycrisp
All that being said, urban farms & community gardens are wonderful things. Not because they'll produce any meaningful calories for their city (they can't) but because they help reconnect disembodied city dwellers with the natural systems that support them
For simplicity's sake, let's break it into two bins, Tart acidity and Sharp acidity. For Tart, imagine the juicy acid of a Granny Smith, the way it kind of focuses at the corners of your jaw. For Sharp, think the bright, tip of your tongue electric hit of a lemon
Sharp acidity will mask sweetness where Tart acidity will work alongside it. That's right, the type of acid will change how sweet you *think* something is. This brings us to Perceived Sweetness, a measure entirely separate from Specific Gravity
The use of both hormones is known to have a negative impact on flavor, and both are classed as pesticides with tight regulations surrounding safe use.
I'd honestly rather have GMO food than food which requires filling our environment with synthetic hormones
Vertical farming will remain relegated to short season, low calorie, high margin crops like greens, mushrooms, and weed. It will *never* meaningfully change the food system, which is why all the smart money FUCKING BAILED
Perceived Sweetness is a hard one, because it also brings in Aroma and Tannin but also because uhhh
There's more than one kind of sugar, too. Fruits aren't going to pump out any of the artifical stuff but there can be variation of the ratios between varities
Honestly the folks getting angry imagining a $300k check from a $100M account would probably be even madder if you told them his parents cashed out their whole retirement & took out a 2nd mortgage because they loved and believed in him so much
I think it's interesting how "is Jeff Bezos self-made?" isn't actually a question about Jeff Bezos but an invitation to compare values. There's a difference between getting a seed loan and inheriting dynastic wealth, but lots of people would rather pretend there's not.
Ok now for Aroma. Apples can be either High aroma or Low, but within that aroma is an insanely huge property space so imagine one of these with vertices labeled things like Floral, Fruity, Leathery, Sharp, Tropical, Herbal, Earthy, Spice etc
Occasional reminder that sustainability is a fake concept, Earth is not a closed system & receives 1200W/m^2 in energy subsidies and 80,000 tons/yr in material aid
-anything capable of driving transport costs high enough to change the economy of bringing food into cities from outside would necessarily collapse the high input supply chain of a city based vertical farm
They guy's whole shtick is being an alpha sales monster hustling away & conning people. He doesn't care that *you* value saving money on a $12 watch! But you make him feel like one of his own marks & maybe you're getting somewhere
Idk what number of gripe I'm on but I'll close with the fact that even accepting the chart's stupid tart/sweet framing it's still a TERRIBLE chart because only someone who's never eaten a McIntosh would put it at the 3rd most tart apple. Everything about this chart is trash
Let's go back and talk about Tannin. Usually simplified as Bitterness, this can be seen as either high or low. Most grocery fruit will be on the Low Tannin end of things but (here I go again) Tannin can also be either Hard or Soft
Safety razors are about 1"x2"x.006" so a 150x block occupies about 2 inยณ. Space between studs should be 16" that era, with maybe a 12" drop to first fire block, times 4" depth gets us 768 inยณ/2 inยณ * 150count =57,600x razor blades before full. Per bathroom. Seems sensible.
And just like with cultured meat, most of the measures by which vertical farming "wins" rely on distortions like labeling "spring rain on prairieland" as "wasted freshwater"
For Hard tannin, yeah, think bitterness. Think Assam tea, steeped for an hour in boiling water. Soft tannin is more complicated, it can hit your palate in various ways from a velvety smoothness to a subtle astringency, sometimes savory sometimes sweet
Today I got to stand in front of this glass pattern by Frank Llyod Wright and was yet again struck by the intensity of seeing art in person vs pictures
Even there though, apples grown in California will put out more sugar than the same variety grown in New England simply by dint of the metabolic impact of hot summers on sugar production
Errybody want a righteous God-daddy to solve all pain, ain't nobody wanna acknowledge that the richest human in history has a net worth under 1% of one government's annual budget
The really fun part is that each of those metrics will have some degree of variation for the same variety depending upon the growing conditions for that specific tree. Generally commercial orchards get flattened down pretty aggressively by high input spreadsheet Ag practices
I was on a 9 month wait list for a low pressure gas regulator. McMaster-Carr was sold out of like six sizes of machine screws. On-demand machined stainless sanitary fittings tripled in price and 50x'd in lead time
@orenfalkowitz
@valueterminal
False, the people who put us on the moon actually needed a rigorous understanding of physics & weren't just ZIRP grifting
Those Aromas will have a huge impact on Perceived Sweetness and overall fruit perception -- remember that experiment of holding your nose & eating apples/potatoes/onions as a kid?
I've mentioned this before, but our county Young Farmers & Ranchers group had to raise the age cap to 40 -- because none of their parents will vacate their roles at the Farm Bureau.
They're probably going to have to raise "young" to 45 next
This is one of the most terminal business behaviors that I've seen in my life, and it happens even in families. Incredibly stifling. I think it may be part of why the fertility rate is so low.
Now we get into Commercial Growing Methods. Those trees are going to be excessively irrigated over the course of the season in order to maximize crop size & weight. That's gonna keep the sugar levels down. Most commercially grown grocery store apples will fall SG1.040-1.060
this whole thread is like a guy standing in the middle of a million acres of former-prairie corn monocrop saying "what ecosystem collapse? There's so much living here!"
Lots of people saying there WAS a collapse because some businesses died or there was big inflation or lots of work had to be done to keep the system rolling. All I can say is would this have been your definition of "supply chain collapse" prior to 2020?
Chamomile is a silent epidemic wreaking havoc on the American family.
A friend brought some of these over and I drank two around 8pm.
My body completely shut down and I slept from 9pm until 10am. I slept through Sunday mass.
How is this legal, with such innocent packaging?!
Cannabis is a silent epidemic wreaking havoc on the American family.
A friend brought some of these over and I drank two around 8pm.
My body completely shut down and I slept from 9pm until 10am. I slept through Sunday Mass.
How is this legal, with such innocent packaging?
I thiiiink I got my sheep drunk today.
They were being all crazy in the pasture, headbutting & chasing each other around so I went over & checked and they'd eaten all 400 pounds of pear pomace I gave them this morning. Abv potential on the perry pressed Monday was like 8.8%
Boomers outing themselves. She literally said she has no complaints about the job -- she's upset that her 9-5 is actually a 7-7 because of a generation and a half of shitty boomer housing & transpo policy. I remember this feeling of helpless time-loss, it's awful
This generation has had everything so easy for them, the moment they hit the real world is a total chaos for them.
Imagine complaining about having a normal job and working 40 hours a week to say she has no life and canโt do anything else.
Try three jobs and raising a family
Oh hey, overapplication of forchlorfenuron during a wet spell caused thousands of acres of Chinese watermelons to literally explode from overgrowth back in 2011, better be careful out there roid boys
I remember this as well and it takes on an especially weird tone when you consider that recycling anything but metal is 90% fake
Why did recycling loom so large!?
The main thing I remember about elementary school is that the grownups really wanted us to recycle, they were just so jazzed up about 9-year-olds recycling
Let's recap, when I evaluate fruit I generally look at
Sugar:Specific Gravity low/high
Acidity:low/high
Acidity:sharp/tart
Tannin:low/high
Tannin:hard/soft
Aroma:low/high
Aroma:Type
Perceived Sweetness low/high
A simple 8 dimensional manifold for fruit evaluation
I just checked and you'll also see this more commonly in green grapes because heavy applications of both compounds are also known to degrade color in red/black grape varieties
This is, of course, a demo model. I've worked on these and they might have blown literally thousands of man-hours to fab this one display -- but if they're demoing it, there's some real confidence about being able to hit the requirements for consumer- scale manufacture
I could respect these posts if they listed even a single non-transitory, non-consumer, PRODUCTIVE activity.
"We're DINKs! We mastered the art of sculpture & cast our own bronzes on Saturdays! We're DINKs! We've restored 100 acres of native prairie!"
One of the clearest Chesterton fences of my lifetime. Every public behavior norm we had around smoking & drinking went out the window for the weed crowd, people getting high with an abandon that they would *never* have brought to, say, daydrinking
Homegrown popcorn is probably one of the easiest food production wins we've found. A 12x12 patch grew like 20lbs AND IT KEEPS INDEFINITELY WITH ZERO PRESERVATION EFFORT
thanks for all the love, everyone! This right here is what it's all about.
Food is life and food is memory and you deserve to be delighted by it. Don't let bad food rob you!
@IntractableLion
Honestly I got a Fuji off the tree from an orchard in Delaware back in October and I'm pretty sure it ruined apples for me
It'd been so long since I'd had a proper crisp yet juicy and sweet apple (if I ever did) that I had forgotten what apples are supposed to taste like
Massive heatwaves are hitting across Europe. Temperatures not even seen in summer are being felt now with many areas up to 16 degrees above normal temperature.
We're in a
#climateemergency
. We must
#ActOnClimate
.
#climate
#energy
When we opened the cidery, Kris asked what my dream goal was. I said "getting a cider paired with a plate at a Michelin starred restaurant."
As of today, ~18 months later, we are at one Michelin 3-star and five 1-star restaurants. We've been paired at least a dozen times.
So here's the thing, I would LOVE to see better labeling requirements. I would lose my mind with glee if bulk wine producers had to list all the shortcuts & additives & LITERAL DYES they employ to bring you that $4 bottle.
As a very small niche alcohol producer I am here to tell you that there are, in fact, very strict packaging & labeling regulations for anything alcoholic.
Like at a certain point the dumb actually is your fault & no one can help you
My mind is still blown that literal Gigachad Henry Cavill turned out to secretly be the nerdiest of all possible nerds, not just playing video games several hours/day but *also* collecting Warhammer miniatures, the most low-status male-coded hobby in existence
People are big mad about this & referencing mines & sweatshops & capitalist hellscapes like keeping kids at a desk for 40 hours/week with 3 hours/day of homework isn't abuse
@sama
Children working at ~10-12 years old is good and healthy and almost all kids would be happier if they could. Disallowing child labor was a good idea at the time, today its basically child abuse, causing depression and precluding a lot of precocious greatness from forming.