Having grown my Zerodha account 5x in last 19 months since I started systematic intraday options trading, felt I am eligible enough to share my principles around below topics that helped me scale up.
A thread on my style of position sizing, compounding and handling drawdown ๐
My Zerodha account is (always been) 100% of my net-worth.
Grew my Zerodha account 11x in last 40 months.
The trading strats I used were time based straddles/strangles & range breakouts, the ideas for which I got from fellow traders' social media posts.
Here's a thread on it ๐
My money management principles first:
1. Do not risk more than 1% capital per trade
2. Account for DD while sizing position
3. Do not reduce position size while on a losing streak
4. Increase position size during winning streak
5. Compound capital daily to scale up quick and big
A thread on Price Based Systematic Investment Plan (PB-SIP) methodology which I follow for my stock investments ๐
In this thread I write about
- What is price based SIP?
- Features of PB-SIP
- What is the merit of Price Based-SIP over Time Based SIP (TB-SIP)?
1000 days of automated systematic intraday options trading.
Compounded return: 835% (74% CAGR)
max DD: ~21%
Win days: 57%
Avg RRR: 1.2
Expectancy: 0.25
Profit factor: 1.59
87% of profit is from TBS.
Thanks to Stockmock for backtesting platform and Zerodha for Kiteconnect APIs
Last 4 years, traded options intraday with 100% of networth and grew my Zerodha account 17x.
Going forward will no longer be trading with 100% networth. Because I'm full-time trader now.
Books gifted to me on last working day in corporate job by my manager and teammates ๐๐
Last week my version of 9.20 short straddle hit the milestone of 25L profit.
94.3% return on total capital in 76 weeks
Max DD was 7.5% with max 2% risk per day
Here's the daywise profit contribution split up
0 DTE: 43.01%
1 DTE: 24.93%
2 DTE: 16.52%
3 DTE: 12.45%
4 DTE: 3.09%
To win the game you gotta play the game.
If you play the game you can lose the game.
Only those willing to lose the game can win the game.
The key is to lose but still be able to play the next game.
I get many queries on how to learn automated trading.
Step 1: Learn trading.
Step 2: Learn automation
Resources for Step 2:
1.
@f2003062
YouTube series.
2. Mayank Rasu Udemy course
Heard good reviews on these.
Sep 2020 marks my 3 years journey in the financial markets.
Documenting my journey in this tweet thread with the purpose of helping someone who might be in a position I was at various points in my journey.
It all started with a google search "How do rich people get rich"
Why cap rupee risk at 1% capital per trade?
- We can be wrong in any trade and got to cut losers short
- Intraday price action is random and can be irrational
Market can stay irrational longer than a trader can stay solvent
Risking <1% per tradeโฌ๏ธodds of trader staying solvent
Jan 2022 ends as my highest profit month and 2nd highest in terms of % (15.34%)
Split up:
Option selling: 0.07%
Option buying: 15.27%
Looking back, my profit this month is ~2.5x my (inflation un-adjusted) annual income in my first job in 2014.
Glad things have changed for good!
My 0DTE Short option risk management 101:
-Always enter, exit with SL-L order with wide enough buffer
-Always hedge more than 1x.
-Always size position to limit DD at EOD to 20% if SL not honored (LPP)
-Always have sufficient cash in account to fund -ve MTM
Keyword: ALWAYS
Why do I not want to reduce position size in a losing streak?
- Because if I do, I will need 25% gain to recover from 20% DD which is an uphill task
- If I factored in 20% DD upfront for sizing position, then I need only 20% gain (not 25%) to recover from 20% DD
4 years since I started automated intraday options trading.
- Year 1: 111% return, 6.8% max DD
- Year 2: 53% return, 21.35% max DD
- Year 3: 41% return, 10.8% max DD
- Year 4: 105% return, 5.4% max DD
Year 5 goal: Repeat year 4.
3 years since I started automated intraday options trading via Time Based Straddle (TBS)
Compounded return: +334%
Max equity DD: -21.4%
Max time DD: 97 trade days
Trade days: 739
Win days: 55%
Avg daily RRR: 1.1
Daily expectancy: 0.14
Profit factor: 1.3
Finally out of the hole I dug for myself.
97 days of time DD over.
21.35% max equity DD recovered.
Back to equity high with a 4.5% profit day from expiry day option selling.
What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.
Current time DD at 43 trading days
Current equity DD at 12.9%
Peak DD was 21.35%
Previous max time DD since I started automated intraday options trading was 42 days
Happy to see market testing whether me & my system are good enough
Need few more of those bamboo green candles๐
Which is my favorite instrument to pledge and trade?
- ICICI Prudential Regular Savings Fund (IPRSF)
10 year return:
Nifty: 2.98x at 39% max DD
IPRSF: 2.74x at 7.3% max DD
Haircut:
niftybees: 8%
IPRSF: 7.5%
22% equity + 70% debt allocation => low collateral value volatility
35 weeks done without changing my system rules.
70% return at 3.4% max DD last 35 weeks.
Max planned risk per day: 5% of capital.
TBS portfolio up 43% in this duration.
Hoping for a good close to FY24.
In the midst of "tell me a better business than FnO algo-trading I'll wait" phase for far too long now.
Price at overbought levels. Expect a correction soon.
Strong performance by my 0DTE TBS system this week. Felt like H2'20-H1'21.
53% return in last 25 weeks at 2.6% max DD.
Few months back I visited bank branch to enquire about loan for trading. My conversation with manager:
Me: Sir I want to avail loan for my business
Mgr: What business?
Me: FnO trading business
Manager looks me in the eye, gives an angry stare as if I'm a criminal๐
1/5
In this tweet thread I just shared stuff the way I do it.
This of course does not mean that it is flawless or the best way to size position, handle DD while scaling up.
The intent was just to provide food for thought to those on the lookout for it!
Hope it helped someone.
Why do I increase position size on a winning streak?
- There will be phases when our strategy aligns well with price action regime in the market. Go full throttle then.
- When you get an over full of half volleys, you gotta make hay, hit'em outta da park and party hard baby๐ค
3 years since I started automated intraday options trading via Time Based Straddle (TBS)
Compounded return: +334%
Max equity DD: -21.4%
Max time DD: 97 trade days
Trade days: 739
Win days: 55%
Avg daily RRR: 1.1
Daily expectancy: 0.14
Profit factor: 1.3
Time based straddle/strangle portfolio back at equity high after 110 day drawdown. Max equity drawdown was 7.7% for taking more than 2-4% risk per day.
I'm bullish on the future prospects of my TBS portfolio considering that every day will be an expiry day soon.
Seems growing "account" 5x got more focus than rest of the thread ๐
Guys,
1. I am not claiming 400% return in 19 months๐
2. My account growth on starting capital has 3 components:
- trading profit
- unrealized investment profit
- small inorganic growth from salary savings
โญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธ
6 in a row
My Z 60 day challenge win tweets are a reminder to myself that back in 2017-19 when I was not yet a consistently profitable trader, winning a single 60 day challenge was a distant dream. And today, I'm living that dream
#grateful
To win the game you have to play the game.
If you play the game you can lose the game.
Only those willing to lose the game can win the game.
Stuff I tell myself after a big loss day.
You hunger to succeed at something originates when you realize every moment matters and that there is no way back if you miss boarding the bus on time
By 26 I'd realized most 35+ folks still work grudgingly only bcos they missed boarding the bus of risk taking in their 20s
1/2
2023. Another great year of FnO trading.
56.4% net return on total capital (also my networth).
Net profit โฌ๏ธ 83% YoY.
Everyday 0DTE in 2nd half of 2023 made life easier as it opened up ample opportunities to diversify risk and smoothen returns.
2022 was challenging as I had to tune my trading s/m to changed market dynamics.
Add to that, scored a self goal risking 4% per day in long option s/m & getting into 21% drawdown in April.
Still, net profit โฌ๏ธ55% YoY
Return on capital +51% in 2022
All is well that ends well๐ช
If you are a 'do-the-same-thing-daily-no-matter-what' trader, it is important to understand that each index goes through phases where the price action is unfavorable to make profit
Returns graph of different indices with same (unchanged) 0DTE TBS rules over last 11 months ๐
โญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธ
7 in a row
Last 60 days performance stats:
Return: +15.6%
Max DD: 6.2%
Max planned risk per day: 4% of capital
Trade days: 57
Win days: 45.6%
Avg daily RRR: 1.64
Expectancy: 0.2
Profit contribution:
Option selling: 18%
Option buying: 82%
โญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธโญ๏ธ
6 in a row
My Z 60 day challenge win tweets are a reminder to myself that back in 2017-19 when I was not yet a consistently profitable trader, winning a single 60 day challenge was a distant dream. And today, I'm living that dream
#grateful
After 3 consecutive lossy months in Apr, May, Jun (-1%, -2.5%, -2.3%) did some data analysis & revamped my trading portfolio. Glad it is paying the dividends.
CY23 at +47%
FY24 at +27%
Up 33% in last 15 weeks.
Everyday 0DTE regime has opened up opportunities and I'm loving it!
When it rains, it pours.
21.5% return in last 10 weeks.
TBS up 13.9% in this duration.
0DTE regime off to a smooth start.
Feels like drawdown is around the corner as I plan to ramp up 0DTE TBS risk per day :)
Curious to see how things go from here!
Had my biggest profit day in absolute terms
Been on the right side of luck (& evaded bad luck) in recent times.
103% return at 5.4% max DD in last 44 weeks
Risk per day 5% of total capital
Hit a loss of 4.2% in a single day on 28th Mar 2024. Keeps me grounded. Can happen again
35 weeks done without changing my system rules.
70% return at 3.4% max DD last 35 weeks.
Max planned risk per day: 5% of capital.
TBS portfolio up 43% in this duration.
Hoping for a good close to FY24.
Why account for impending DD upfront while sizing position?
- because I do not want to reduce position size while on a losing streak, but I also want to increase position size while on winning streak
- because when DD happens I am not disappointed as I already factored that in
"Amateurs look for challenges, professionals look for easy trades" - Alexander Elder
Last 24 months my options selling s/m has given 203% return at 6.8% max DD
From FY23 start, increased option buying s/m risk per trade with the goal of higher return at higher DD
Lesson learnt
Example with 1% risk per trade, 16.7% max DD
Day 1:
-capital: 12L
-expected DD: 2L
-risk per trade: 10k
If day 1 was 1L profit:
Day 2:
-capital: 13L
-expected DD: 2.2L
-risk/trade: 10.8k
If day 1 was 1L loss:
Day 2:
-capital: 11L
-expected incremental DD: 1L
-risk/trade: 10k
Every day b4 running my trading code, I make peace with the fact that I might lose all of planned max risk x% for the day.
That means, an event day is no different than any other day.
Budget day
RBI policy day
Muhurat trading day
Wedding day
Birthday
Every day is a trade day.
Will remember FY24 as the year my trading business revenue outgrew my salary income by handsome margin.
Started FY24 with 3 lossy months: -6% by Jun'23.
Ended FY24 at +53% net return.
Business stats:
- ROCE: 49%
- ROE: 25%
- OPM: 79%
FY25 goal:
Grow margins back to FY22 level.
"Premiums too low. Don't sell option at shitty price"
"Vix rising. Market moving big. Don't trade non directional."
"RV will be >>> than IV. Don't trade."
Being a systematic trader I read these and tell myself 'scared money makes no money' n keep trading the same strat daily.
Been profitable in many regimes
- VIX crush (Jun'20-Aug'21)
- intraday leverage removal(Sep'21-Jul23)
- daily 0DTE(Aug'23-now)
But it is not just profit that gives confidence. It is the ability to
- understand why your system works
- identify, quantify price action regime shifts
Saw tweets calculating transaction charges in 920 straddle being 33-50% of gross profit in screenshots
JFYI๐
I traded only 920 straddle variant, 2 straddles per day, risking 1% capital per straddle from Jun'20 to Aug'21 and my transaction charges was only 6.6% of gross profit
@AnandableAnand
Stats of my version of 9.20 straddle system in 2021
Total profit: 18.55L
Annual return: 50.92%
Max DD: 7.5%
Max risk per day: 2%
Profit months: 11 / 12
Profit weeks: 34 / 52
Trade days: 240
Profit days: 139
Avg RRR: 1.22
Expectancy: 0.288
Profit factor: 1.69
Ending 2021 at ATH
March 2022 summary:
Return on total capital: +4.76%
Max risk per day: 4%
Split up:
Option selling: +2.63%
Option buying: +2.13%
FY22: +101.76%
CY22: +31.92%
17th profitable month out of 21 months of automated systematic intraday options trading.
1. What if there is an intraday gap of 9% in index and my SL doesn't get executed?
2. What if SEBI bans or NSE stops weekly options?
Unless I have the resources/skills to ensure the above scenarios don't reduce quality of my materialistic lifestyle, I won't be a full-time trader
Having a like minded trading partner is a blessing.
I'm lucky to have one who was also my classmate at NITK, FIFA14 gaming partner in hostel, gym partner briefly, co-intern and later colleague at Intel.
Today he turns a full-time trader๐
Most traders look to reduce hedge cost. Personally I look to increase hedge cost.
more hedge cost => closer hedge strike => lower VAR => lesser margin req => bigger position size => more profit
Expectedly, my hedge cost on big profit days is 7x more than that on big loss days.
Now, why compound capital daily?
- I factored in DD while sizing position
- I factored in taking probabilistic approach to trading by risking <1% per trade
Now what holds me back from reinvesting the profit ASAP in the business that generated it? Nothing!
So I compound daily
Regret is a constant thing in trading
We cannot time the top & bottom
If we trail tight, it hits SL and moves in favor then again regret
If it hits TSL and would have gone to hit SL, then regret of lesser than peak profit
Accepting regret is the secret of happiness in trading
Started automated trading in Jun'20 with a 300 line code for 2 time based straddles per day (1 BN, 1 N).
Since Sep'21 have had to adapt & evolve. I now trade between 15 to 29 setups a day and code size has increased to 8600 lines! Bad coder.
Touching the code feels scary now ๐
Destination trading time at Rosetta by Ferns resort in Sakleshpur.
Visited the resort this time with parents. They enjoy the little joys nature has on offer better more than me. And I enjoy seeing that.
@BandiShreyas
Pay income tax by taking personal loan.
- Claim interest paid as business expense to reduce taxable income.
- Make returns higher than interest paid. So you make net profit due to taking loan.
Compound the account unhindered ๐ค
Following this methodology I have gone through 8.77% DD in 3 days and scaled back up to equity high without reducing size.
I risk max 4% per day, max 0.5% per trade and factor in 15% DD.
From risking 20k per day in Jul'20, have scaled up to more than 10x that in this style.
That charm of Thursday expiry day is gone forever.
Used to eagerly wait entire week for Thursday.
Now entire week has 0DTE opportunity and 0DTE is not as profitable as earlier either (atleast for me).
Breakouts.
Mean reversion.
Option buying.
Option selling.
Handling drawdown.
Position sizing.
Discussed about them all here ๐
Do give it a watch if interested in these topics!
Handling and managing drawdowns are what decide your fate as a trader. Here's a discussion with
@GoldenDustbin
where he has shared a technical and mathematical approach on how he manages drawdowns in his trend following and breakout systems.
Two things I like the most about trading for myself
1. Freedom. I have freedom to take decisions on ideas I believe in. Means, higher growth potential if I'm good at it.
2. No human dependancy. Unlike other businesses, I don't have to bribe or suck up to someone to make it big.
If DD goes beyond historical max DD that I factored in, then by virtue of risking fixed % of capital per trade I reduce position size while on losing streak.
This makes sense to me logically as I would like to go on risking lesser per trade just in case the s/m lost its edge.
"Jaagrathe" (careful) - my father used to say every time I ventured out of home or did any activity.
Our approach as a trader is an extension of our approach in real life. 'Risk first' approach was imbibed in my blood from my father, and it extended naturally to my trading.
1/3
So, here goes the link:
You will surely love the content shared by Aamodh (
@GoldenDustbin
)
If you like the video, do subscribe to the youtube channel :)
TBS PnL chart 10 months later...
Reaping the benefit of two non-controllables:
1. Intraday leverage removal (in Sep'21). Forced me to hedge for margin benefit and consequently started focusing on VAR, diversification
2. Everyday 0DTE. Self explainatory
Time based straddle/strangle portfolio back at equity high after 110 day drawdown. Max equity drawdown was 7.7% for taking more than 2-4% risk per day.
I'm bullish on the future prospects of my TBS portfolio considering that every day will be an expiry day soon.
To be profitable in the long run, a trader needs two type of edges - quantitative and qualitative.
Quantitative edge is the strategy's expectancy.
Qualitative edge is
1. Logical reasoning ability
2. Analytical thinking ability
3. Common sense
(1/2)
1.
Akash's video was a game changer for me.
During my initial 32 month (Sep'17-May'20) lossy stint in market, I always looked for a 'do-the-same-thing-daily' kinda strategy but hadn't found one good enough.
This video introduced me to the world of TBS!
This is a 'thank you' tweet in appreciation of my version of 920 straddle, for helping me scale my account from 'x' in Jun'20 to 5x in Mar'22
You helped me be profitable trading options without knowing what kurtosis, volga, skew, convexity, charm, smile, vomma, chumma meant
1/3
Higher expectancy does not necessarily mean higher profit
When I backtest or compare two strats first thing I look at is total profit.
Bcos what'll help me achieve financial freedom is what's there in my bank account, & what shows up in my bank account is ๐ต and not expectancy.
Is theta decay an edge? What does data say?
S1: Intraday 920 straddle, 25% SL in weekly options
S2: Intraday 920 straddle, 25% SL in monthly options
S3: 9.20am go long in FUT with 0.5% SL + go short in FUT with 0.5% SL (trade different expiry futures each leg)
In the midst of "tell me a better business than FnO algo-trading I'll wait" phase for far too long now.
Price at overbought levels. Expect a correction soon.
Strong performance by my 0DTE TBS system this week. Felt like H2'20-H1'21.
53% return in last 25 weeks at 2.6% max DD.
After 3 consecutive lossy months in Apr, May, Jun (-1%, -2.5%, -2.3%) did some data analysis & revamped my trading portfolio. Glad it is paying the dividends.
CY23 at +47%
FY24 at +27%
Up 33% in last 15 weeks.
Everyday 0DTE regime has opened up opportunities and I'm loving it!
Haven't tagged people as it would feel like seeking publicity.
Purpose of this thread:
1. A token of thanks to all these folks.
2. I benefited from traders' posts. Felt like giving back in my own small way.
3. Remind ppl that following simple strategies can make money.
If you have a small account size, costs do eat up a higher % of profit. Focusing on reducing cost is good
Two ways of doing it:
1. Go to 0 brokerage broker
2. Execute less orders per day
When I started intraday options trading in Jun'20 with 9.67L capital, I chose option 2 ๐
Jan 2022 ends as my highest profit month and 2nd highest in terms of % (15.34%)
Split up:
Option selling: 0.07%
Option buying: 15.27%
Looking back, my profit this month is ~2.5x my (inflation un-adjusted) annual income in my first job in 2014.
Glad things have changed for good!
People having a problem with IIT passouts calling themselves IITians are the same type that have a problem with 920 straddlers (automated) calling themselves algo traders.
Superiority complex IMO.
What's trading success for me?
2017. 1st salary after . Told mom I'll be investing majority savings in mutual funds and not FD. Lot of drama followed. I was told stock market is a place for gamblers. People lose money in market. So I don't value money.
Had a call with
@itjegan
It was nice discussing 920 straddle and trend following on nifty with the very person whose traders carnival video introduced me to pledging investment and using collateral for selling options.
Thanks for the discussion :)
3rd highest profit day โ
8th highest profit day โ
15th worst loss day โ
All in a single week.
8.2% profit week comes to an end, and at peak capital.
Best in absolute terms. 2nd best in percentage terms.
All geared up for impending drawdown now ๐
For an engineering/medical/CA entrance exam preparation guy, 1/2 days in an year is competitive exam.
For an intraday trader, every day is a fresh competitive exam.
I became a better, serious and disciplined trader when I realized this.
Twitter is such a wonderful place.
Wanted to have a BTST system for a long while, but lacked ideas. Picked up a BTST idea from a 'quarrel' that happened some time back between folks I follow :)
BT'ed it on stockmock & also used it to enhance my current long options s/m as well!
1 year of intraday leverage removal - a tale of 2 halves.
From Sep'21 to Mar'22 I traded the same 920 straddle s/m (albeit a little diversified) that had helped me scale my account 4x in 14 months.
4 trades per day.
1 early and 1 late time based straddle in BN and N each.
1/6
Q: Will time based straddles/strangles (TBS) stop working?
My view:
You cannot stop randomness. Randomness is a feature of intraday price pattern.
The time instant at which market forms high of the day, low of the day and mid point of the day is random each day.
1/2
When we have a good strategy that has worked well for us in the past, we tend to expect that market is obligated to give us money.
The phase where returns are flattish is a much needed gentle reminder that we only get what we deserve & each penny has to be earned.
Note to self.
1 year of STBT + BTST
Return: +17.5%
Max DD: -2.05%
Max profit: +3.03%
Max loss: -1.03%
Trade days: 154
Win rate: 62.3%
Expectancy: 0.54
Calmar: 8.5
Profit factor: 2.4
Profit months: 11
Loss months: 1
Max profit month: +3.86%
Max loss month: -0.17%
Thanks
@AnandableAnand
bhai for having me on the twitter space and giving me an opportunity to share my journey.
For those who missed, recording is available below ๐
Do join Anand bhai's other Twitter spaces for more interesting discussions :)
Week in week out keep getting thrashed.
Week in week out keep showing up head held high ready to get thrashed.
Story of my Nifty 0DTE. TBS system last 5 month.
2022 was challenging as I had to tune my trading s/m to changed market dynamics.
Add to that, scored a self goal risking 4% per day in long option s/m & getting into 21% drawdown in April.
Still, net profit โฌ๏ธ55% YoY
Return on capital +51% in 2022
All is well that ends well๐ช
Once upon a time on expiry days when I heard the 'pop' sound,
Mind voice: Yay. Another trade, more profit.
Nowadays on expiry day when I hear a 'pop',
Mind voice: Shit. Another trade, another SL.
Market's way of keeping me grounded.
Graph below is the hedge cost graph of mu TBS system in last 10 months.
If not for the two big profit days, average daily hedge cost is ~0.083% which translates to annual hedge cost of around 20%.
But because of the bonus big profit days average daily hedge cost is only 0.03%.
6 months since I started hedging for margin benefit on 0DTE
Trade days: 26
Return on total capital: 28.5%
Max DD: 2.64%
Max risk per day: ~4%
Max leverage: 45k per lot
Win days: 60%
Avg RRR: 2.43
Expectancy: 1.06
Numbers are post brokerage, slippage, txn charges & hedge cost.
Who you are is defined by what you are willing to struggle for.
No struggle, No reward.
No process. No result.
No fight. No victory.
No drawdown. No equity curve high.
Source: Subtle art of not giving a f*ck. Except DD part.
Things I get in my mind at 9% DD.
If all you can lose from the market is only money, you are doing it right.
If you are losing anything more, there is scope for improvement.
Note to self, as every now and then I need to re-align my mental framework that keeps deviating from what is ideal.
Equity high after 94 day time DD and 11.37% equity DD.
FY24 has started in similar fashion like FY23 with 90+ day DD
Recovered from 3rd >10% DD in last 17 months. Mediocre return of 38% in this window
Hopeful of realizing better calmar in months ahead.
Finally out of the hole I dug for myself.
97 days of time DD over.
21.35% max equity DD recovered.
Back to equity high with a 4.5% profit day from expiry day option selling.
What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger.
When it rains, it pours.
21.5% return in last 10 weeks.
TBS up 13.9% in this duration.
0DTE regime off to a smooth start.
Feels like drawdown is around the corner as I plan to ramp up 0DTE TBS risk per day :)
Curious to see how things go from here!
Time based straddle portfolio back in good form.
(I don't use wait & trade, re-entry, re-execute, TSL, target)
I'm bullish on its prospects (50% annual net return at 5% DD) in the era of 5 0DTEs a week.
Curious to see how things go.