Wow. Just wow. Andersen actually came all the way to Norway to publicly chastise me. He spent a significant portion of his talk addressing me personally, going through my media interviews and tweets in front of an auditorium full of scientists. I don’t know if I should feel
Covid originating from a lab is a plausible scenario. It’s in everyone's interest to get to the bottom of this so that we can better prevent future pandemics. Feature in Norway’s biggest newspaper:
@R_H_Ebright
@JamieMetzl
@Ayjchan
@mattwridley
Kristian Andersen is in Oslo, Norway to give a talk tomorrow entitled “The origin of a pandemic - the fact and the fiction”. He will also be quoted in Norwegian media labelling me a conspiracy theorist for questioning the science and the motives behind dismissing a lab origin. I
@fossum_even
Actually, he only presented his own research. He did not present any of the scientific papers that contradict his own. Eg on the molecular clock, the interpretation of the market data, differing analyses on the virus genetics. Had he done so, the picture would have been quite
The claims that the new Cell paper strongly supports a spillover at Huanan market are highly exaggerated, and appears to be another attempt to shut down the lab leak discussion. New feature in Norwegian media:
At covid-viruset kan ha kommet fra en lab, er et plausibelt scenario som bør granskes skikkelig. Det er i alles interesse å komme til bunns i dette, slik at vi står bedre rustet til å forebygge fremtidige pandemier.
@Langsikt_
@GGrodeland
@Prebens
1/2:
@fredriksolvang
: vi har billioner av budbringer-RNA i kroppen til enhver tid, helt naturlig. Ikke bruk ordet «skremmende» bare fordi noe virker ukjent. Søk kunnskap. Det siste vi trenger er å skape mer ubegrunnet mistillit til vitenskap og teknologi.
@fossum_even
Furthermore, he did not acknowledge that many scientists and others (including WHO) are of the opinion that we certainly don’t have enough data on either the market, the epidemiology or the lab activities to be able to draw any conclusions at this point. He actually said to me
1/ The covid origins debate continues in Norway.
@GGrodeland
and I argue in
@Aftenposten
that the science has not been objective in the dismissal of a possible lab origin.
I would like to hear what
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
@flodebarre
and others make of this paper. Genuinely. I am still open to all origin theories and want to hear all sides and arguments.
Finally, our peer-reviewed paper is published.
WIV created an undisclosed MERS synthetic virus and was swapping out receptor binding domains.
MERS is 30% lethal but, at least in nature, it fails to support human-to-human transmission.
Why is a
#CCP
supported lab doing this?
1/One thing that deeply concerns me about the Covid origins issue is that the people with the most knowledge about it and responsibility for addressing it are silent, leaving scientists and the public to “fight it out”, causing rifts that I worry will soon be too deep to repair.
@fossum_even
But when the talk is entitled “the origins of the pandemic - the facts and the fiction” do you not think he should present the topic more broadly? And at least mention that there are other scientific analyses and conclusions?
I am curious: Would
@MichaelWorobey
et al be willing to share reviewer feedback from the Huanan-market papers in Science and Cell? That would give more transparency about the scientific assessments of their strengths and weaknesses.
New podcast (in norwegian) about the lab leak hypothesis and the problematic handling of the science, the politics and the media coverage surrounding it.
Ny episode om koronapandemiens opphav. Kan en lablekkasje ha startet pandemien? I denne episoden snakker jeg med professor emeritus i medisin Stig S. Frøland, og
@sigridbratlie
– molekylærbiolog og seniorrågiver i tenketanken
@Langsikt_
1/2 The full story behind Proximal origin, the paper in Nature Medicine that dismissed a possible Covid lab origin, as detailed by
@gdemaneuf
. What was initially a diplomatic effort to get WHO access to China (an admirable goal, had it remained as a behind-the-scenes effort)…
1/8 As I promised some time ago, here is an important piece on the genesis of Proximal Origin.
I called it 'A Tragicomedy of our Times' because that's precisely what it is.
The piece is long (book-size), but there is a short Summary:
@JeremyFarrar
@CiViX
1/Før vi går inn i en lang debatt om de faglige detaljene; et av hovedproblemene her er at mange av representantene for fagmiljøet du lener deg tungt på har lav kredibilitet i mine øyne. Regner med du nå har lest gjennom all privatkommunikasjon knyttet til Proximal origins?
@OscarSkeptic
@VeritasVincit5
@tgof137
1/4: I strongly disagree. Every time this group publishes a paper/preprint they claim that the matter is settled. First Proximal origin Feb 2020:
@OscarSkeptic
@VeritasVincit5
@tgof137
4/4: I have literally been called a conspiracy theorist by some of these authors for suggesting that this issue is not settled.
So I stand firmly behind my opinion that they are repeatedly trying to shut down the lab origin theory, despite a glaring lack of definitive evidence.
@angie_rasmussen
@R_H_Ebright
@JamieMetzl
@Ayjchan
@mattwridley
1/I have been looking at this case from all angles for quite some time, making my own judgements, based on a variety of information of scientific and non-scientific nature. Could you explain to me exactly which evidence is inconsistent with a lab scenario?
@StavaRune
@fossum_even
I asked him about that after the talk. He said we have more than enough data to make a conclusion about a double spillover at the market. He said that we should not be demanding any further data from China. And that Ghebreyesus is misrepresenting science when claiming that the
Absolutely appaling and unethical by the environmental movement! Field trial of disease resistant gene edited rice that would reduce pesticides and yield losses destroyed for political/ideological reasons. This has got to stop!
Jeg vurderer å stemme MDG i år, men er bekymret for at gammelt ideologisk grums i
@Partiet
forhindrer offensiv grønn teknologisatsing. Hvis dere kan love en åpen og kunnskapsbasert tilnærming til genteknologi, er jeg med! Du har guts og visjon
@Uneaba
- tar du utfordringen?
2/We speak out for two reasons: 1) To protect the integrity of the scientific enterprise and ensure that we as representatives of the scientific community have trust when we address actual conspiracy theories and 2) to better prevent and prepare for future pandemics.
@CiViX
Det finnes selvsagt mye mer jeg kunne sendt deg. Poenget er: Hvis du mener det ikke er noen grunn til å stille spørsmål ved kredibiliteten til disse fagfolkene i lys av alt som har blitt kjent, så får vi bare være enige om å være uenige. Jeg står støtt i mine vurderinger.
Kjenner du noen som er usikre på om de tør å vaksineres pga risiko, kan du vise dem denne👇🏻På nesten alle parametre er risikoen for komplikasjoner mye større ved
#COVID
-smitte enn vaksine, særlig de mest alvorlige.
@kaveh_rashidi
@Ingeborgborg
@Prebens
2/Those particularly responsible include the intelligence community, journal editors, public health authorities and governments. This issue isn’t going away, and the longer it is dragged out, the harder it will be to restore trust and make amends.
«...noko av det beste eg har lese av forskingsformidling dei siste åra» skriver anmelderen i
@StvAftenblad
og triller en femmer på terningen! 🥳 Jeg og
@hallkvale
har skrevet bok om hvordan bioteknologi kan overstyre menneskets biologi i alle livets faser. Fås i bokhandelen.
The Genetically Modified Potato project ongoing in Nigeria has concluded its first-year multi-locational confined trial in three locations.
The Biotech potatoes show significant yield advantage over conventional varieties planted in the country.
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
1/ That is not true at all. I have spent the last six months looking at this from all angles. My starting point was in support of zoonosis, but I have changed my mind after careful assessment of all the information.
2/2 …ended up as an unsubstantiated scientific paper that squashed the entire lab origin debate and still prevents us from properly investigating a legitimate theory.
@forskningno
@nilaug
@DekodetPodcast
@torkjell
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
You are still not answering my question. Forget WIV. Could you please give me your views on the core findings of the paper itself (completely ignoring whatever the tweet said)? I am trying to engage you in a scientific discussion on a paper.
EU parliament (plenary) has voted YES to a new enabling regulation for genome edited crops for a more sustainable and resilient food system! 🌱🧬 Finally, a policy based on science and knowledge, not ideology!
@HeidnerBio
@LangsiktSenter
Science wins in Europe!
MEPs vote in favour of supporting greater use of New Genomic Techniques (
#NGTs
) in the EU.
This is a huge step toward more sustainable agriculture.
Thank you
@weplanetint
and to everyone who has taken action toward this outcome.
3/It will also continue to steal time and attention from what really matters; to prevent and prepare for future pandemics and AMR, tackling climate change, transforming the food system, reducing poverty, making life saving medical innovations equitably available…
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
4/the entire sum I received for a science communication prize last year to activities on how to build trust in science and discuss threats to the integrity of the scientific enterprise. The handling of the origins of SARS-CoV-2 is the most troubling issue I have ever encountered.
Hurra! Ble i dag oppnevnt til et offentlig utvalg (NOU) for å gjennomgå kunnskap om og regelverk for genteknologi. Målet er at genteknologi skal brukes til det beste for samfunnet - i mat, medisin og industri! Gleder meg!
#CRISPR
@Rotevatn
@CiViX
Jeg diskuterer også gjerne mer rundt Peter Daszak sin kredibilitet, bl.a årsakene til at finansieringen til EHA ble kuttet. Har du satt deg inn i det? Det finnes et hav av dokumentasjon på at han har opptrådt uredelig. Vi kan ikke diskutere vitenskapen frikoblet fra dette.
Jennifer Doudna is not only a brilliant scientist. She is also a great ambassador for responsible research, public engagement and women in science. Truly deserving of the
#NobelPrize
. I had the pleasure of meeting Jennifer when she got the 2018
@KavliPrize
.
#CRISPR
@doudna_lab
The Court of Appeals’ decision against genetically modified crops is a monumental win for Filipino farmers and Filipino people who have stood up against GMOs for decades! 👏🏼🌾
@mbw61567742
@nizzaneela
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
@flodebarre
My view exactly. It is disheartening to witness, but it is nevertheless the reality and now we must work to restore integrity and trust. I still believe the scientific method is our best tool to shape a better future, as long as we shield it from political or other agendas.
For a scientist, my career path is rather unusual. But I love what I do, and
@FEBSnews
thought it interesting enough to invite me to write about it. Maybe I can inspire others to look outside the lab for alternative careers.
#FEBSnet
#scicomm
4/and all the other things that are essential to a sustainable future. I don’t know if anyone with the power to make a difference will read this, but I will nevertheless post it to do my bit of nudging. I also encourage…
@StavaRune
@fossum_even
Ironically, the private messages actually showed Andersen is a very talented scientist. They also showed he was (rightly) very critical of Daszaks work. Such a shame he wasted all of that by letting ‘politics being injected into science’ (his own words).
Superb piece by
@ElizKolbert
in
@NewYorker
on the potential and dilemmas of using
#CRISPR
gene drives in conservation biology. The technology allows us to control evolution. Well worth the entire read.
@WashburneAlex
@StavaRune
@fossum_even
No. Or, no-ish. I did manage to get one question in before the microphone was taken away from me again, and that was for him to comment on other published papers that conclude differently (the Liu et al Nature paper on market data, Bloom papers, ascertainment bias papers) but he
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
3/I am a staunch defender of scientific integrity and trust, and debate people who try to undermine that on a regular basis, e.g NGOs that spread disinformation about GMOs or vaccines for political gain. I donated…
I dag var jeg i Stortinget for
@Kreftforeningen
for å argumentere for hvorfor bioteknologiloven må endres, til det beste for pasientene: Enklere tilgang til genterapi, forskning på befruktede egg, PGD for arvelig brystkreft og lagring av egg for dem uten livmor.
@ingvildkjerkol
“We still don’t know how the COVID-19 pandemic began, and unfortunately, the work to understand its origins remains unfinished.”
I am grateful that the
@WHO
and
@DrTedros
takes a leading role in addressing the origins of COVID. Our future pandemic preparedness depends on it.
@DrTedros
@UNICEF
@UNRWA
@EU_Commission
"However, even with a framework in place, it requires the cooperation, collaboration and transparency of all Member States.
We still don’t know how the COVID-19 pandemic began, and unfortunately, the work to understand its origins remains unfinished.
SAGO is now finalizing its
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
5/It is very disappointing if you are not willing to discuss the matter without resorting to insults or dismissing the arguments of people who respectfully disagree with you. I am open to have another go if we can stay on topic and avoid making it personal.
@Torkil
@Strumke
@Partiet
@Uneaba
Genteknologi (særlig CRISPR) til mat/landbruk/akvakultur. Det har enormt potensial til å bidra til bærekraftsmål, feks klimatilpasning av planter, redusert arealbruk, sirkulærøkonomi osv, men ingen partier tør å snakke ordentlig om det fordi «GMO» er tabu. Har MDG diskutert det?
I spørsmålet om Kjerkols tillit: hvorfor diskuteres ikke mer om hvorvidt vi kan ha en statsråd som lyver om sakens faktum i månedsvis? Det må vel være enda viktigere enn selve oppgavefusket (som i seg selv er diskvalifiserende selvsagt)? 🤷♀️
Noen presiseringer:
1. Norske helsemyndigheter har ikke gjort noe galt i denne saken.
2. At det har vært foul play i denne saken, betyr IKKE at forskere og myndigheter generelt ikke kan stoles på, altså at konspirasjonsteorier generelt er sanne.
Yesterday I taught my 8 & 5 year olds about how transposons naturally alters the genetic code of living organisms and gives us e.g multicolored maize. They were mindblown and now both want to become biologists ⭐️
#Knowledgeispower
#STEM
#Genetics
#scicomm
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
2/I have not exchanged information with or adopted opinions from anyone supporting either lab leak or zoonosis. I hold a phd in molecular biology and I have published in high ranking journals. I digest and communicate scientific information for a living.
Finally! Nobel prize for
#CRISPR
🥳🥳 Congrats Jennifer Doudna and Emmanuelle Charpentier! The committe recognizes the technology’s impact on both food and medicine. Couldn’t agree more!
@NRKViten
@EkkoNRK
@aft_viten
#dax18
I dag har jeg hatt gleden av holde foredrag om
#CRISPR
for over 200 engasjerte, smarte, teknologiinteresserte jenter på
#techcamp
@TekniskMuseum
med
@IsabelleRingnes
og
@TENKnorge
Med disse jentene ved spakene i teknologiutviklingen er jeg optimistisk for fremtiden 👩🏼🔬👊🏻
@CiViX
2/… Ta feks gjerne også en kikk på forhold knyttet til artikkelen til Shan-Lu Liu et al (som også har signert artikkelen om hvor skadelig det er med lab-hypotesen fra J Virol som du viser til). Et sammendrag finner du ifm en retraction request her:
Gene editing with
#CRISPR
can increase plant productivity (more efficient photosynthesis), decrease food waste (increase shelf life), increase adaptability to climate change and much more. Should be a central part of this debate.
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
I am more interested in hearing your assessment about the core finding; that there was evidence of a reverse genetics system in the data. Do you agree with that conclusion and if so, could you think of a plausible explanation and share your view on the implications?
@forteller
@jarottingen
@fredriksolvang
Joda, men det finnes mange måter å stille det spørsmålet på som er mindre ladet og suggererende enn slik det var stilt. Jeg håper du har rett, og at folk ble beroliget av svaret, men jeg er ikke overbevist.
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
Thing is, you are factually wrong about me, and the fact that you insist on portraying me as something I am not, makes me question your motives and integrity. Why are you so reluctant to discuss the science?
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
2/ maybe for the X audience that are curious about your scientific opinion on the paper in question? Imagine you were given this paper to present and discuss in a journal club. What would be your take?
I dag er en historisk dag: Beslutningsforum sa ja til Kymriah for barn med leukemi (ALL). Dette blir første gang genterapi skal tilbys gjennom den offentlige helsetjenesten i Norge!
@radforsk
@DagensMedisin
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
1/ I will be happy to discuss those statements in a separate tweet. For now, I am hoping that you are willing to engage in a scientific discussion with a fellow scientist, even if we have different views on other matters. If not for my sake, then…
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
2/ Do you agree that there are signs of a reverse genetics system in the data and if so, what do you make of that? If you do not accept the core findings of the paper, why not?
@OscarSkeptic
@VeritasVincit5
@tgof137
You just said that no one is trying to shut down the lab origin debate, but are you now implying that we should shut it down because this group of scientists say so? If so, you are proving my point.
Jeg synes vi bør kunne forvente mer av samfunnets etiske vaktbikkjer enn fiffige metaforer, stråmenn og handlingslammelse når vi diskuterer teknologiens plass i håndteringen av store samfunnsutfordringer. Jeg svarer på Bjørn Hofmanns usaklige kritikk:
Hvis jeg har rett i mine spådommer om Fremtidsmennesket får vi møtes igjen som 150-åringer og ta en ny prat
@ToreSagen
:) Til dere andre: lenke til podcast-episoden finnes i posten under her 👇🏻
Takket være klinisk studie med genterapi er Simen i dag en kreftfri 16-åring. Flere får muligheten om bioteknologiloven endres. Ikke la syke mennesker bli ofre for politisk spill
@BentHHoyre
@kjellingolf
@KToppe
@Venstre
@angoffinet
I am not afraid, but I am trying to avoid making more conflicts than necessary. I think it is important to keep focus on the origins question and the handling of the science by those responsible, rather than making it into an ever expanding mud slinging game. So while I am
@flodebarre
@angie_rasmussen
@MarionKoopmans
That does not make any sense. Surely people can assess science even though they are unsure about naming traditions in China? Are you implying that I do not know how to read and interpret a scientific paper?
Viktige refleksjoner fra
@nilaug
i
@Minervanett
om medias rolle i lablekkasje-saken. Minerva /
@Akselfrid
har gjort en eksemplarisk dekning av sakens forhold fra start.
Tre viktige grunner til at Minerva som en av få aviser dekket lableak-hypotesen, var at vi ikke var så redde for å stemples som konspi-trump-rasister; skjønte at pressen må være kritisk også i møte med forskere; og at vi turte å risikere å ta feil.
@angie_rasmussen
@R_H_Ebright
@JamieMetzl
@Ayjchan
@mattwridley
I don’t see how the market data rule out a lab incident. Market data could very well be consistent with a superspreader event rather than initial spillover, no? Especially when considering other factors such as molecular clock.
I dag nådde vi en milepæl i Norge: Første GMO-produkt godkjent til bruk i matproduksjon; rapsolje beriket med omega-3 til fiskefôr. Dette vil øke omega-3 nivået i fisken. Bra! 🌱🐟🥳