Still working on the track list but the notes are up for Episode 79: "If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears", an in-depth look at one of my favorite groups--the Mamas & the Papas!!
Not to add to the ratio but this is exactly the kind of poor journalism that we discuss in the episode I posted today. More than anything else it demonstrates how unseriously these publications and journalists take Kpop and idol music.
Like I'm sorry but anybody who thinks Super Junior or TVXQ or BigBang in the mid-2000s were sitting around with Silver Spoons in their mouths collecting paychecks and trophies is just living in a fantasy world.
Every single K-Pop boy group that followed, followed in their shadows. Nobody has come close to surpassing their influence.
TVXQ x BigBang are the dual pillars of K-Pop.
I've spent a lot of time digging through 2000s K-Pop history the last few weeks and it really is sad how much of this has been completely memory-holed. I see stans today referring to "the big 3" as this holy trinity that has existed since the dawn of time and it's just not true.
I've been following Hybe's investment in vocal AI for a while. That's where they've been investing instead of in their talents' vocals. Who needs human voices when you can just generate "good" vocal takes via AI?
Kpop (the genre) is not nearly as popular in America as the media play insists and the current generation of fans is more likely to be siloed into fans of their respective groups rather than "Kpop" as an industry. Like I keep saying:
Take this statement: an outright lie. It was not unusual but rather extremely on trend. When BTS debuted in 2013, they were following in the immediate wake of extremely popular hip-hop based groups Block B (debuted 2011) and BAP (debuted 2012). Not to mention BigBang (2006).
Sadly, this is what I've found. The colonization of K-Pop fan spaces by ignorant and incurious outsiders has been unfortunate but the real awful part has been the wave of "K-Pop academia" and "K-Pop journalism" by those same types. Writing essays on nonsense and call it fact.
The reason a lot of groups that took part in creating k-pop are now discredited is because k-pop stans are pretty much PROUD of their ignorance.
You don’t know some of the biggest groups in kpop? Then you are in absolutely NO POSITION to talk about kpop history and how it
YG Entertainment was a small independent firm when BigBang debuted in 2006; SM was a small independent firm when HOT debuted and they struggled for YEARS afterwards. All through the mid-2000s.
Rain with Stephen Colbert in 2008; BigBang at TRL Studios in 2006; Hyun Jin-Young filming in LA in 1993; a rave from the Village Voice for 2NE1 in 2012.
Trax, milk, black beat... remember these? No? Nobody else does either because they're all flopped mid-2000s SM acts. They didn't have any silver spoons...
The recent surge of K-Pop fans into J-Pop spaces has been interesting. Projecting K-Pop structure onto companies like Avex is kind of the reverse of stans projecting American industry structure onto K-Pop companies...
With all the BigBang discourse, I'm inspired to pick back up on the MADE episode I was working on. New fans to Kpop post 2018 do not understand the extent to which we're all still living in BigBang's world. Nobody has come along to replace them as Kpop Trendsetters.
Winner really are the "boy next door" Kpop idols in the same way HOT were. I hope I get to see them again live in the future!! Still one of the best concerts I've been to!
I've really been enjoying the
#WINNER_HOLIDAYinTheCity
guerrilla concert footage today. The crowd was incredible and Winner are such great performers. In a lot of ways it feels like they've been re-introducing themselves to the public post hiatus.
So they went around in award shows preaching about "making music the right way(not cheating)" trying to shade others while they were themselve doing chart manipulation? 🤨
Nice to see a journalist tackling this problem of Kpop cyberbullying--and the whitewashing of it by Professional Fans. We talk about it in the episode I'm currently editing.
Cyberbullying by K-pop fans must stop. Be it intimidation, racism, misogyny, or outright death threats, trying to downplay the problem is part of it. Being a K-pop fan does not exclude one from being a bully. Meanwhile, labels keep quiet.
"Pre-existing" idols? I'll never get over the way the dominant fandom narrative requires stans to pretend that the K-Pop ecosystem sprung forth fully formed, with the Big Three and music show voting and Perfect All Kills just invented out of thin air.
I'm sure there's more to come in the ongoing Hybe/Ador saga but what I find interesting so far is the confirmation of things we long-time Hybe watchers have strongly suspected. The extremely cozy relationship with the media; the metrics obsession; the focus on beating SM, etc.
This "discovery" of BigBang/GD&TOP/2NE1 by the critical sphere is a big part of one of my upcoming episodes. Stans today are largely unaware of the big role this played in paving the way for K-Pop in the US especially.
This is sadly common. Partly due to the metrics arms race where the benchmark for "hit" album has been set way beyond any ties to actual human listeners and partly due to things like photocards and other bonuses. In Japan Seventeen has a very robust card trading fandom...
@rogue_taeminbot
@topgirl207
It truly was. I don't understand how these outlets are STILL getting K-Pop so wrong in 2022. It's like fact checking doesn't exist. Nothing exists before the author received a press release 3 months ago.
Yoon! I was thinking about this the other day but Yoon's run on King of Masked Singer was kind of his T-Pain Tiny Desk Concert moment when people who hadn't been paying attention were like, oh wait the Really Really guy can REALLY REALLY SING.
Watching the documentary. I'm at 2:15 and he's already claimed Johnnys dominated the market since the early 1960s (false); used fan video of Sakurai Sho at NY Comic Con in 2009 to illustrate "fans all over the world"; and spoke over an idol, denying the idol's own reaction.
I know I've said this before but in many, many ways K-Pop boy groups have been following BigBang's mold for at least a decade. They have yet to be overtaken:
I'm sure there's more to come in the ongoing Hybe/Ador saga but what I find interesting so far is the confirmation of things we long-time Hybe watchers have strongly suspected. The extremely cozy relationship with the media; the metrics obsession; the focus on beating SM, etc.
🧐😑😑😑 This book won't help you understand what K-Pop is and how it works but it will help you understand the narrative being promoted around a certain group. So I guess that's maybe helpful to "parents perplexed by army offspring."
In less than a lifetime, South Korea went from being a poor country to becoming an economic and technological powerhouse.
But there are dark sides to this success story 👇
K-pop is a multi-billion-dollar industry, now embraced globally across generations and cultures. Rolling Stone ranked the 100 best Korean pop songs ever made.
"There's so little differentiation between these guys"
Yes, because you're looking a wall of Sakurai Sho pictures my dude.
If this is what the documentary is like... 🥶🥶🥶
Being proudly ignorant of Korean popular music before a few years ago when it's been part of the music industry conversation in the USA for decades. How else did JinuSean get Cypress Hill to guest on their album in 2001? "Nobody" heard of Korea or just you?
Some of the screenshots I've seen going around are either incredibly petty or just full of misinformation and distortions. I'd take anything written in that book with a massive grain of salt.
Fanwars have always . Now we are talking about they openly feeding his insane pack of hyenas. Maybe, hybe felt that army had become insufficiently motivated and angry in the solo era. Lol
I've been listening to this live CD in the car a lot recently and this track gives me chills every time. Gorgeous arrangement of Haru Haru. I love how fresh it still sounds. We didn't know how good we had it until it was gone
#BigBang
When I say neither a certain boy group nor K-Pop generally are known to normies and locals, this is what I mean. After 7 years there's no bigger recognition in the USA outside of "generic K-Pop boy band" = ***
This is something I've been pointing to for a long time. The fact that BigBang is still charting so well with a single, completely unpromoted song just shows that they are still most popular boy group in the domestic market.
Boy bands are nowhere to be found gracing the top spots of streaming charts. At this rate,
#BigBang
is the only boy band to have secured a spot on the 2022 annual
#Melon
Chart, while it remains uncertain if
#BTS
's
#YetToCome
will do so.
#Kpop
ABCZ didn't have a CD single "debut" until 2015 with "Moonlight Walker". They were/are a performance/stage focused unit and their first run of "DVD singles" were all done in one shot, no special effect tricks and acrobatics choreographed by the members.
Since Johnny’s Fes is allowing everyone to get a taste of and possibly get into other Johnny’s groups (I know I am 😆) …
QRT something new fans should know about your fave Johnny’s group(s) and/or fandom✨
Just pure NONSENSE! "Semiotics" that doesn't engage with the corporate marketing; lyrical analysis relying purely on fan translations; access journalism done without question. Very little engagement with the musical content, the music history in context, or anything of substance
I was discussing this with some other old time fans and it used to be the pipeline ran from J-Pop to K-Pop. Johnny's fans -> SHINee or AKB48 -> Girls Generation. As "K-Pop" stagnates artistically, the flow has reversed.
A friend passed this along. I just find it so fascinating that Seo Taiji and Boys has been retroactively canonized as the "first Kpop group" when the truth is a lot more complicated.
PSA: Kpoppies, especially moots, the "right person/group, wrong place 🇰🇷" trend is not a flex. Y'all sound racist AF. If Korea offends you that much, well...
Your faves are Korean/Asian and will be until they leave this earth. You, however, are free to leave Kpop.
"Something that had never been tried before... Hip Hop Idols."
Looking back at the early era of
#BigBang
you can really see the seeds of that later boom of hip hop idols to follow. Paving the way, if you will...
🧐😑😑😑 This book won't help you understand what K-Pop is and how it works but it will help you understand the narrative being promoted around a certain group. So I guess that's maybe helpful to "parents perplexed by army offspring."
NewJeans' performance directors finally speak up against Hybe stealing their work for ILLIT after finding out that their latest choreography for NewJeans' McDonalds ad was allegedly stolen
We still see their influence trickling down in art design, sound, even group composition. In many of the ways that count, BigBang defined and continues to define Kpop.
Hybe unleashing that sweet, sweet vulture capitalism on the industry... the enshittification will continue until morale improves.
I've said it before but the Weverse suite of sales and fan management tools is Hybe's main product. The "music" is just a loss leader.
The Dark Side of Kpop narrative is played out so we move to the Dark Side of Jpop... the charges against Kitagawa have been in the English press for over 20 years:
Kitagawa won an initial libel case but it was overturned by a higher court.
A little translation just for fun: V6's Inohara on the differences between Korean and Japanese idols, written in 2002, the year of the jointly held World Cup.
😂😂😂 Oh do "we all know" that?? The refusal of "academic" super-fans to understand the group in the context of K-Pop is fascinating. It means everything the group does is exceptional because their fans don't acknowledge what has been done by the rest of the industry.
Very excited about this new episode series I'm working on. Coming at some point in the nearish future... a look at BigBang and the song series I consider the artistic high point of K-Pop: MADE.
100% and it doesn't help that the stan narrative of great artists doing "music for healing" exists parallel to the reality we all hear in those encore stages.
this is probably year 6 of discussion about hybe's lack of vocal training. its clearly not a priority if their artists are gonna get support in spite of that. however, when they put them on big stages, of course they're leaving artists open to criticism on their exposed faults.
So much from this era has been erased or written out of the "K-Pop narrative" as inconvenient. Histories today jump right from Seo Taiji to the mid-2010s.
YES!!!!! It really doesn't help that every article written past 2018 pretends the years from 2006-2018 do not exist. "... and then a rap position happened by magic mysteriously"
@idolcast
Looking forward to this series. My sisters introduced me to BB back in 2008/2009 and to say they were THE tastemakers and epicenter of K-pop's rise and relevancy is an understatement. The MADE album release was a cultural shift that I wish newer kpop fans could grasp.
In the last episode we talked about K-Pop's Larry Stylinson moment... perhaps it's coming sooner than we expected. Holland was absolutely right. Shipping can be fun but don't take it into the real world. And FFS don't harass idols with it.
Just recorded a fun episode on the Johnny's documentary, J-idol fandom, and how the media often gets it wrong. Do I use this as an excuse to bring up that 2014 Japan Times article about how Sexy Zone should do drugs? Yes. Yes, I do.
Binary Korea, a subsidiary of K-pop powerhouse Hybe, will officially launch the country’s first creator fandom platform, “Theus,” on June 22, the company said Monday.
I got hounded for saying exactly this last year but it's true. A decade ago, K-Pop was positioned as an innovator but that reputation has vanished. Which both is and isn't fair. Some companies (and artists) lean far harder into the emulation...
instead of positioning themselves as the new innovative pop player in the game, kpop companies have decided to emulate what already saturates the western markets. it’s baffling.
This has nothing to do with music or idols. The way H*be has moved over the last few years has been about trying to consolidate all of "Kpop" onto a single proprietary app: W*verse. They don't care what you consume as long as you do it on W*verse.
The number of people who care about presenting an accurate history of K-Pop in English is so vanishingly small that it makes sense that 90% of what’s on offer is stan lore and aggressive PR. But it doesn’t make it less frustrating for the 10% of us who want to actually understand
👇👇👇 This is something I've talked a lot about re: K-Pop "Journalism," most of which is either access journalism/copy-paste press release stuff or stan journalism.
The rise of the stan journalist who always gives glowing reviews of the artists they love is one of the best encapsulations of how social media has poisoned parts of the media.
To score points with their favs stan writers give positive coverage the stars they're obsessed with.
When BigBang debuted in 2006 they were called the "Super Rookies" and had a deal lined up with Tony Ahn's Schoolooks uniform company before their first single had even dropped! The excitement was real. Thousands of fans showed up for fan events.
"Tempo" and "Taekwon"
The framing of that Time article is interesting because it's feels like apparently there is only narrative in the K-Pop media for boy groups and it's been this one since like 2010:
This is the first in a series of episodes looking at the musical evolution of
#BigBang
and you know I had to start at the very beginning... with G-Dragon and Taekwon.
This is the problem with the "-Pop" suffix. K-Pop IS the export idol industry by design. "J-Pop" is 邦楽 of which the idol industry is only a part. The market for a "J-Pop news site" covering everything from King Gnu to Starto to the live house scene is vanishingly small.
problem with creating a "J-pop news site" is that the industry's reality (and strength) lies in how all over the place it is, making it hard for any coherent focus to emerge. K-pop, meanwhile, is presented as all idols, making it easier to specialize