@0xfoobar
This is a pretty genius grift innovation imo
2017 - Dump the tokens on retail
2021 - Keep the tokens to borrow against them
2023 - Keep the tokens to hunt stops
We just launched testnet for the dark pool, check it out!
Why am I so excited for
@renegade_fi
?
I really think it's one of the best hopes for the future of DeFi.
Awesome discussion between
@AnnaRRose
and
@kobigurk
on
@renegade_fi
and collaborative SNARKs!
Interestingly, collaborative proofs and dark pools work really well together.
To give some intuition, we can map ZK-MPC directly onto traditional notions of exchange privacy ...
๐๏ธLast week,
@AnnaRRose
and
@kobigurk
shared an overview of the state of ZK: the new projects, paradigms and challenges emerging in the ecosystem in the last 6 months.
Have a listen and let us know what you think are the highlights of zk atm
@0xzuberg
ORUs are limited by execution throughput of base layer in event of fraud challenge, no?
e.g. block with 100M gas would require many L1 blocks to binary search for fraud
zkVMs have extremely cheap verification clients, they'll be more decentralized + have more throughput
We're live on Sepolia!
Arbitrum Stylus is really incredible โ it allows you to execute WASM bytecode directly on the L2 for extremely cheap gas.
If you're curious to experiment, check out our smart contracts () โ they're great scaffolding to get started.
Renegade is now live on Arbitrum Sepolia!
With the recent deployment of Stylus onto the Arbitrum testnet, we've migrated the Renegade contracts from our in-house testnet to Sepolia.
Mainnet gets closer and closer..
My fundamental problem with trusted hardware is that it's not particularly Lindy
If SUAVE attracts meaningful flow, SCP/WM will find some PhD students to extract keys for <$1M
True crypto is special because the institutions we're building can plausibly last hundreds of years
Made it to ETH Denver.
Extremely exciting developments in the next few months for
@renegade_fi
Hit me up to chat best-execution, dark pools, being an early Renegade infra provider, MEV, intents, heterotopia, etc etc
Mainnet launch is set for September 3rd! ๐
In just under 3 weeks, Renegade will make its debut on Arbitrum as a day-one app alongside the launch of Stylus ๐ดโโ ๏ธ๐๐งก
Stylus is a huge leap forward for Arbitrum... and it makes Renegade's dark pool insanely fast and cheap ๐งต๐
This seems like a critical Flashbots design flaw; two consecutive slots means you can always unbundle.
A complex solution: Increase delay to ~1 minute, and modify consensus clients to attest to a new header if either:
1) know a valid body, or
2) know a zkEVM proof of validity.
@samczsun
That patch only patches a small bug but would've been irrelevant for the attack. The economic incentive is such that proposers will still manipulate the block.
25m profit for 1.8k slash.
The vulnerability is in the design.
.
@base
has a good shot to win the L2 race.
Cash is the ultimate top-of-funnel, and regulation is the ultimate lock-in.
"Closest to the fiat" is the new "closest to the hardware".
@chudnovglavniy
@eigenlayer
If token emissions go to zero, LRT yield = LST yield = ETH staking yield, right?
Holding a LRT is strictly better than holding a LST, assuming no slashing/hacks
Don't see how this leads to mass withdrawals or is a crisis for EL
Funny how the endgame of every discipline worth learning is maximal simplicity:
The best writing is straightforward.
The best design doesn't make you think.
The best optimization is to not do it.
The best leadership sets the tone, not details.
The best sale is no sale at all.
However, normal ZKPs have an important limitation:
All witness data must be known in full to the prover!
Collaborative SNARKs relax this single-prover assumption. They allow for multiple provers to work together (via MPC) to generate a single proof of a distributed witness.
We're pleased to announce that Renegade has successfully completed an audit with
@zksecurityXYZ
.
All critical components of the stack, including our smart contracts, PlonK verifier, and circuit constraints were reviewed.
@boredGenius
LVR - yeah, if you're fine with a centralized auction
MEV - not really, since solvers are whitelisted and are trusted with pre-trade transparency
PoS classically decreases the cost of security, since we remove both the coordination costs and fixed costs associated with PoW mining.
@eigenlayer
puts this on steroids not by removing fixed costs, but by enabling leverage over the underlying capital.
In the language of market structure, we now also have "pre-trade privacy", since collaborative proving no longer requires pre-trade knowledge of multiple orders.
MPC = pre-trade privacy
ZKP = post-trade privacy
ZK + MPC =
@renegade_fi
.
@renegade_fi
's oracle design is really underrated
Current solutions to "the oracle problem" ultimately rely on -external trust-
If you're using
@chainlink
or
@PythNetwork
, you're trusting a multisig of operators
If you're using a stake-based design like
@WeAreTellor
, you're
My stream-of-consciousness on Heterotopia:
Extremely cool ideas. I always get excited when one insight solves lots of stuff we've been working on in crypto.
Any multi-proposer consensus algorithms out there?
Thinking about how to solve cancel censorship in e.g.
@dYdX
or
@SeiNetwork
.
Double-proposer consensus with asymmetric roles could solve it: Primary validator proposes a full block, secondary validator proposes a set of cancels.
Introducing Fhenix: The first blockchain powered by Fully Homomorphic Encryption!
Fhenix enables direct computation over encrypted data without ever revealing the data to the server!
Click here to learn more!
#FHE
#Web3
#Encryption
VCs want GPT to be the google killer so badly because they were founders in the 2010's when google was Big Corp to be feared
exact same reason they ask "what if google builds this?"
@hasufl
For the same reason that memes are trading on Uniswap v2 and not v3 โ easier to seed liquidity, traders don't care about good execution, and LPs don't care about profitability
some deal structures are so hilarious
@OpenAI
"we're gonna be so insanely profitable, upside is capped at 100x"
@ProjectSerum
"there's way too much interest, cap will increase linearly over time, write your name on this google doc"
both counter-intuitively leading to more $
If
@dYdX
's orderbook is outside of consensus (in a mempool), how do market orders work?
Can't an adversarial validator match a "market buy" order with a limit order that they just created at an arbitrarily high price?
How does dydx mitigate this? cc
@AntonioMJuliano
@evwho_
The best investment of the next decade that ~zero asset managers will have the guts to do:
Give a bunch of money to the most underfunded public goods (climate, x-risk, fundamental science) and collect the future retroactive airdrop
Out-allocate the government
an interesting thought experiment: what would a default-async blockchain look like?
current paradigm is static txs bid for sequential ordering within a block
maybe future paradigm is dynamic workers bid for ordering on a scheduler
A new player has arrived โฆ
We raised $2.9M from
@BainCapCrypto
,
@tcg_crypto
and others to build the next generation of crypto games hyper focused on composable user-generated content.
when my system has tradeoffs itโs โa healthy middle groundโ
when your system has tradeoffs itโs โa no manโs landโ
weโre all in the DMZ brother
They won't stop with "mixers," they're coming for self-custody too โผ๏ธ
While this government response is not yet enshrined in law or precedent, it paints a much clearer picture of how the state views not only the place of privacy tools, but even that of self-custodial wallet
@HaymanLiron
Latency is surprisingly short, most of the computation is offline, and collaborative snarks only have 2x overhead vs. single-prover. Pretty confident we can hit sub-second online phase
Also no need for MMs / book quotes at launch, since it's a midpoint crossing network
Interesting animation - gives you some intuition about how off-chain price drift affects MEV.
Fully agreed that solving LVR means decreasing block times to zero - this is exactly why
@renegade_fi
uses real-time midpoint pegs!
a LOT can happen in 12 seconds, obviously, we picked this example because there was a lot of volatility but this happens surprisingly often, any LVR solution needs to operate in real-time.
@DistributedMarz
Agreed TEEs seem best for what Flashbots is trying to do! Enjoyed those MPC writeups and hyped for SUAVE to go live.
We're just working on different problems โ our goal is to improve traders' lives by bringing true best-execution to DeFi, and we happen to think that ZK+MPC is
thiel's "what important truth do very few people agree with you on" can be relaxed substantially imo
"what important truth do very few people talk about" is better
the most interesting ideas are not the ones with most disagreement, but with little consideration whatsoever
โผ๏ธ zkHouseParty at SBC โผ๏ธ
The Renegade team will be in NYC next week โ come hang out on Friday!
And if you're a trader/solver/searcher, shoot us a DM โ would love to meet and share some product previews.
@jon_charb
@renegade_fi
is an even tougher question to answer: Is non-batched off-chain execution a ZK rollup?
(i.e., does โrollupโ mean that youโre rolling up many transactions, or just rolling up the execution itself)
Plato on market makers:
GLAUCON: Suppose now that an artisan brings some production to market, and he comes at a time when there is no one to exchange with him.
Is he to leave his calling and sit idle in the marketplace?
Vitalik is right โ peer-to-peer MPC is the future!
Renegade is bringing privacy to on-chain trading, without sacrificing on decentralization.
How so? Let's dig in ๐งต
Crypto is more interesting for macro-coordination rather than micro-coordination imo.
Things like micropayments, business models for digital art, etc. don't make much sense to me; people are extremely economically irrational at those margins.
Macro-coordination has largely been a role of the state: The dollar, railroads, environmental protection, rockets to the moon, etc.
The state capacity to produce those goods has gone way downhill.
If crypto goes well, projects like
@ConstitutionDAO
are just the beginning..
@boredGenius
@SorellaLabs
Definitely, although I have some qualms with that design
1. Four rounds of communication has a significant latency overhead
2. Relies on threshold encryption for bid privacy, but leaking a secret share is not slashable
@divine_economy
๐ฏ money is *credit* and credit can never be neutral
the dollar is just an index on credit, as constructed by banks (the near-monopolist creators of credit/money)
the endgame for crypto is not credibly-neutral money, but rather to break credit monopolies
solana is ngmi, cooked, busted - not thinking about blonkchains correctly at all
the goal is proving clients ultra-powerful, and verification clients widely widely distributed
L2s just mean breaking this symmetry
solana isn't robust, will not be around in 100 years. avoid
Airbnb is often placed in the "early-2010s mobile" tech wave, but only 20% of bookings happen on mobile!
It's best understood as a peer to Facebook, not Snapchat.
@MaxResnick1
Why not treat privacy like we treat everything else, and let the market price its value?
i.e. mechanism designers should seek to make privacy possible but not required.
This is what dark pools (including
@renegade_fi
) do with indications of interest / icebergs.
Tether makes more money than Goldman Sachs.
Defi has already flipped tradfi, but most people don't realize it yet.
You think wall street is not going to try to grab the flaming hot ball of money?
@wiIIiamrobinson
imo AMMs should embrace what they're good at, extremely dumb & scalable liquidity provision
there are ~50,000 global equities. if crypto succeeds we'll see billions of tokens
the future is OTC / dark pools / self-custodial CEX for the majors, and UniV2 for everything else
An often-incorrect pattern I've noticed is to critique a new idea by analogizing to a failed idea:
"You're just bringing back free banking / bearer certificates / barter systems / collective ownership, those failed"
Re-imagining old ideas with new tech is extremely powerful!
@scottfits
you can embed zk-proofs of TLS handshakes and cert authorities for verifiable HTTPS requests on-chain! i believe
@BarronCaster
and
@CoralRelief
were working on this some time ago, from an academic paper out of
@initc3org
iirc
@Shaughnessy119
@jayendra_jog
@SeiNetwork
Whatโs a single, concrete example of an app that is best built on a sector-specific L1, versus its own appchain or a general-purpose chain?
I am not yet convinced that any exist..
Hard to understate the hyper-deflation in the price of security we're about to see imo.
My model of
@eigenlayer
is that it allows for "levered security", in the sense that validators can now cross-collateralize ETH across multiple risky applications.
We're proud to release the 1st public version of the EigenLayer whitepaper:
- in the new
- and at
It describes the key ideas the core developers are implementing into the 1st version of the protocol launching later this year.
1/6
It rode the social computing wave:
First, we trusted the internet with our personal information (Facebook).
Then, we trusted the internet with our physical presence (Airbnb).
Next, we'll trust the internet with our money (BTC).
It's very likely that Trump is going to be elected โ my predictions on what that means for crypto:
(1) Gary gets bagged and the SEC favorably settles all the big lawsuits
(2) A TradFi giant like Citadel will get into MEV block building; beaverbuild and rsync will get crushed
I'm honestly surprised that no client team has launched a token yet
Being a majority client is a pretty powerful position, since the client devs have huge sway on the hard fork roadmap
Wen $prysm $teku $besu
imo Balaji wants to be the Elon Musk of crypto; performing highly-visible publicity stunts that forward his ends
both the 1M bets and "woke white" are insane
2023 is not 2008; twitter has changed the game
and he smells blood in the water for fiat
SOCRATES: Not at all; he will find people there who, seeing the want, undertake the office of salesmen.
In well-ordered States they are commonly those who are the weakest in bodily strength, and therefore of little use for any other purpose; their duty is to be in the market,
"EVM tech is incapable of handling over 30 tps" is such a dishonest characterization lol, EVM execution latency is one of the last bottlenecks to scaling.
1/ EVM wonโt scale.
EVM tech is incapable of handling over 30 tps, which cannot compete with web2 speeds.
@Solana
's SVM solves this issue.
A thread on how SVM will help onboard the next wave of blockchain users at scale. ๐๐งต
The Ethereum Foundation is in a tough position. How do you fund research and operations without dumping on your own community?
Thankfully, we have a way to perform community-aligned sales with zero price impact โ by using a dark pool!
How is that possible? Let's dive in ๐งต
Standard zero-knowledge proofs are all about privacy of the "witness" (i.e., secret data) with respect to arbitrary third-party verifiers.
In the language of market structure, we'd call this "post-trade privacy", since a ZKP can hide the details of a token swap from the public.
But few make the conclusion that:
3. Housing is an "up only" asset class because 30-yr fixed-rate mortgages are directly in front of the money printer!
We are officially launching
@FreeRossDAO
๐, an open community aimed at buying Ross Ulbricht's NFT collection and funding the mission to
#FreeRoss
and fight for prison reform.
freerossdao.eth
Letโs save a life ๐
@bennybitcoins
Lmao it literally costs a quarter of a million to run a profitable block-producing Solana validator
FYI
@bennybitcoins
we won riptide defi and strongly considering leaving the solana eco, stuff like this absolutely repels competent devs
@duoxehyon
This is directionally similar to
@renegade_fi
, except we have nodes for trade privacy, not for custom pricing models. Similar pros:
โ CEX prices on chain
โ Zero slippage / spread / price impact
โ Gas efficient (sub-$1, but only because it's on Arbitrum)
โ No one gets rekt, no