Dov Kadin @DovKadin Twitter profile

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Dov Kadin

6 years

This is my favorite fourplex in Sacramento. Four modest 1bd/1ba units with nice shared backyard in a beautiful neighborhood. 28 units an acre. Let’s make this legal wherever we allow residential.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Powerful

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Revised from 94 units and 15 parking spaces to 130 units and 0 parking spaces. Affordable at 80-120% AMI with no subsidy too. Folks, you love to see it.

Revised apartment proposal for 12th Street in Sacramento features more units, no parking

An urban infill proposal for 12th Street in Sacramento has been revised and submitted again, with some key changes.

www.bizjournals.com

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

So staff said the project would remove all the parking for a bike lane, council voted to move forward, then the exact number of removed spaces was revealed, council balked, killed the project, launched a $200k investigation into staff, and fired the boss?

Berkeley's top transportation official is out of his job

Farid Javandel's departure came amid a lengthy city investigation into the Transportation Division he led over the Hopkins bike lane project.

www.berkeleyside.org

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Think your council is pro housing? Sacramento heard the staff proposal to scale back zoning reforms and impose 4-6 unit caps across 70% of the city last night. Here were all five of the comments from the dais, each expressing a desire to increase density or do away with the caps

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Tonight, the City of Sac took a REALLY big step to streamline housing approvals. All multifamily infill housing projects up to 200 units that comply with zoning will now be ministerially approved at the staff level. No CEQA, no delays, just NIMBY-proof approvals in 60-90 days.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

We have a consultant helping us with a hidden barriers in zoning presentation and this slide is perfect lol

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Can’t park in the bike lane if there’s physical separation. This is the busiest st in my hometown of SLO, a city of 50k people.

Ali Doerr Westbrook

@DoerrAli

1 year

@TheCityofSac I think it’s time you have your parking enforcement staff on bikes. I’d like to enjoy my ride instead of doing your job for you.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

BIG General Plan action at Sacramento City Council tonight gives the go-ahead for allowing at least fourplexes everywhere, eliminating parking minimums, moving towards all electric blds, right-sizing streets for transit/bike/ped, and prioritizing equity in infrastructure (1/9)

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Davis is having a bit of a moment here with three big mixed-use projects within 4 blocks proposed using SB 330 and the City's new form-based downtown specific plan. It's an impressive example of how permissive, form-based zoning and by right approvals with no CEQA yields results.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Wow, @anniefryman just mentioned at @yimbytown that they can get an ADU permitted in an hour in San Jose thanks to their ADU permit day where once a week all departments can hop on a single zoom call to hash out all the department reviews.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Wild hearing from at #yimbytown from Taylor Morrison (one of the larger single family developers in the country) say they are replacing 15% of homes in their Oregon greenfields with triplexes in response to state legalization of missing middle. Imagining the possibilities in Ca..

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Here’s a clip from my comments last night at planning commission as we talk about the proposal to place arbitrary 6 unit/parcel caps (4+2 ADUs) across virtually all the R1 and R2 parcels where missing middle is actually feasible to build in sacramento.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

These raised existing house, new ADU on the bottom projects are getting more popular in Sacramento. This one around the corner from me in oak park.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Is this really what happened? What a fun city to practice progressive transportation planning 🙃

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

SB 9 has penetrated the Zillow descriptions

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

"Several builders told us that the ideal building typology is between eight and twelve units, where more projects start to become financially viable. This “magic number” allows for economies of scale while using less expensive, wood frame construction without elevators."

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

A bunch of new supply coming online (we are hitting multi-decade highs in multifamily production). Annual rent growth in Sac has fallen for 7 consecutive quarters and is now negative at -2%

Parker Evans

@parker_d_evans

1 year

Colliers' Q2 multifamily market report for Sacramento is out. Vacancy is back up above 5%, rents are stabilizing, and thousands of new units are still in the pipeline. As always, grain of salt with all this, but overall positive news!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Looks like Milwaukee is poised to allow 12 unit small apartments across most of the city (medium and dark green). No reason we can’t do this in sacramento.

Jaco Major 🍗

@JacoMajor

1 year

NEW: Milwaukee, Wisconsin just proposed the most ambitious zoning code in the US. 🚨📰🏘️ -ALL residential parking mandates gone -Small apartment buildings legal BY RIGHT in core (medium green) -Triplexes, townhomes, & ADUs legal by right CITYWIDE -Permitting FAST-TRACKED 🧵🧵🧵

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

11 months

I’ve been owned lol Professional sports context: this man is 33 it’s honestly a marvel he’s still playing what a veteran Political context: wow what a refreshing young man, bright eyed and bushy tailed, very impr…

The Sacramento Bee

@sacbee_news

11 months

A Sacramento planning commissioner shows why young voices on city boards are vital | Opinion

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

We should be zoning for orders of magnitude over what we want to see built. This notion that we know exactly where to put capacity and anything we zone for gets built is a fantasy and unhealthy.

Liam Dillon

@dillonliam

3 years

Some goalposts officially moved today. In 2018, California Gov. @GavinNewsom campaigned on the CONSTRUCTION of 3.5m new homes by 2025. Today, four years later, his administration put out a report on a ZONING PLAN to support the building of 2.5m new homes by 2030.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Folks, the lads are pumped about redeveloping sac executive airport

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

Lennar is building these "nextgen" homes now across multiple Sac region jurisdictions with a JADU-like living space. Super interesting trend to watch.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Fun fact: 100% affordable projects now get unlimited density and 33 extra feet of height in both the blue areas (1/2 mile from major transit stops by 2040) AND the green areas (very low vehicle travel areas, which are defined as 85% below regional or city average in Sac County).

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Wow Fannie is lowering LTV thresholds for principal residence 2-4 unit buildings. Will only need 5% down for normal loans as well as homestyle renovation loans (which I used to finance construction of my ADU). Should open up opportunities for mom and pop missing middle financing.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

There is something special happening in Sacramento right now folks. A confluence of prohousing leadership on council/planning commission/planning staff, governmental agencies like @SACOG and @AQMD , and incredible advocacy orgs like @SacHsngAlliance , @ecosacramento , and @SacYIMBY

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Sacramento is (slowly) moving forward with reforms to allow for a variety of housing product types in areas previously restricted to single family homes. The neighborhood associations from whiter and wealthier areas are organizing a formal bid to scale back those reforms.🧵

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

My friend is building an ADU in Sacramento and just let me know he got his planning approval in less than a week. 😎

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Fun fact, San Diego County and the cities within permitted more ADUs than single family homes in 2021.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

"the project is subject to AB2097, which prohibits a public agency from imposing any minimum parking requirement on any residential, commercial, or other development"

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

What a cool and normal use of urban land

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Seen a few of these so I ran the numbers for City of Sac. As it stands, everything in yellow is restricted to housing for wealthy people. There is no world in which this is serving the public interest.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

If you care about improving access to more affordable homeownership, you will need to legalize this everywhere you currently allow a single family home.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

Paying homage to the best of the painted ladies

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

They are building midtown sacramento density in suburban seattle. This is on my walk to get coffee in a mostly residential neighborhood. No wonder seattle is cheaper than Sacramento despite massive demand and a booming economy.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

It's very early still, but I'm loving the City of Sacramento's framing of their proposal to eliminate single family zoning. It's going to take strong advocacy over the next 10 months, but this is really promising language:

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

The part I find really frustrating about the "density isn't green if it's only rich people" argument is it doesn't care about the counterfactual. VMT is obviously correlated with income but households aren't just created by urban form they make choices about where to live...

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

I know I’m supposed to be just enjoying the beach but what are we doing here folks? This is a 7 acre surface public parking lot. Put a damn garage up and build some housing.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Would love to see an ebike rebate as a part of any transpo stimulus package or GND

John MacArthur

@johnmacpdx

4 years

Electric bike subsidies would empower more people to use cars less

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

I'm sorry but this is just wrong. The research is pretty clear: restrictive zoning in low-carbon areas is bad for the climate. You can prevent infill, but you can't prevent demand--those houses get built somewhere. Prevent them in infill areas and they happen in greenfields.

Rent Controller OG🌹🪟

@AlisonB916

5 years

Second SB50 is being touted as part of our climate change mitigation. It isn’t, and might actually increase carbon emissions.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

6 years

This is truly unacceptable for the center of a 12 million person megaregion.

Mission YIMBY 🥑

@MissionYIMBY

6 years

Here's your regular reminder that new apartments are illegal in 76% of the city (via )

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

11 months

One of the underrated perks of AB 2097 is that cities that were ambivalently contemplating parking reform are now just saying "wow AB 2097 did most of the controversial work for us, let's just finish the job and eliminate minimums citywide"

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Proposal for replacing a subway with a 31 unit, 5-story mixed use project at over 100 units/acre. Doesn't say how much parking but likely little to none given the density. You love to see it folks.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

Let’s make it easier for more people to live in the green areas

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

CA has seen a steady decline in housing permits since 2017 if you exclude ADUs. Steady increase if you include them. ADUs are a meaningful part of the State's housing production and the housing crisis would be worse without them.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Shouts to City of Sacramento for still being the only jurisdiction in the state to be awarded Prohousing status by @California_HCD . 16 more are in some stage of review including Placer County, Roseville, Sacramento County, Citrus Heights, and West Sac from the SACOG region.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

17 of the 28 local governments in the Sacramento region require at least 2 parking spaces to be built on site for every 2bd apartment unit. These rules drive up the cost of housing, reduce how many units get built, and disproportionally penalize lower income/non-white households.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

Paris is a third the pop of ca but building more housing. They use zoning reform, massive public subsidy for affordable housing, local override, and strong planning rules that concentrate dense housing around transit and jobs. Seems like a good plan.

Yonah Freemark

@yfreemark

5 years

Lessons from the Paris region for increasing housing production in the U.S. <— my op-ed in the @sfchronicle

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

It’s time to open up our high opportunity inner ring suburbs to more housing choice!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

“The carbon savings from middle housing are voluntary, self-financing and immense. So why are they illegal?”

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Another banger dt. 60 units, 1,700 sqft retail, 0 parking spaces. Over 200 units/acre.

Downtown Sacramento gets five-story residential proposal

Empty for well over a decade, a spot in Downtown Sacramento has a proposal for a five-story project combining residential and short-term rental units.

www.bizjournals.com

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

There have now been metro-level studies on Sacramento, the Bay, LA, San Diego, Minneapolis, and Connecticut. Every single region zones 70-85% of residential land as single family. This reinforces racial segregation, makes housing more expensive, and accelerates climate change.

the Othering & Belonging Institute at UC Berkeley

@oandbinstitute

2 years

This regional report only encompasses San Diego County, but it includes 18 incorporated municipalities and unincorporated areas. With over 3 million residents, it is California’s second most populous county, and the fifth largest in the United States.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Here are the areas in the Sacramento region where AB 2097 eliminated parking minimums, based on our current MTP/SCS. Minimums are already gone in most of the areas in the City of Sacramento already, but this is a big deal for multifamily housing outside the City.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

This is a BIG deal for reducing the cost of building housing. It's also huge for opening up high opportunity neighborhoods. Discretionary processes are often weaponized by older, whiter, wealthier neighborhoods whose residents have the time/money to show up to meetings.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Chonky boy

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

To those fear-mongering about everything being 0 parking when parking minimums are gone, may I present this 100% affordable project 200ft from a light rail station that is still electing to include 0.5 parking spaces/unit despite the requirement being 0.

CRP Affordable Housing aims at late-2024 start for project on Folsom Boulevard near Sac State

A recently sold spot on Folsom Boulevard could see construction in less than two years, but of a different kind than what's been built nearby lately.

www.bizjournals.com

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

11 months

King

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Protesting in wealthy suburbs is sweet as hell. Highly recommend.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

I'm a few weeks into crudely tracking Sacramento area ADU rentals and so far the average rent is ~$1,250 for 642 square feet. Affordable for a two-person household making 80% of area median income. Not a magic bullet, but not bad!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

132 units on 0.6 acre lot proposed on corner of 12 and E (224 units/acre). 0 parking spaces, across the street from light rail, 24% of units are affordable (not required). Using density bonus to do what general plan update will allow: use FAR instead of unit density max. Love it.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

The NIMBY oppo to Sacramento's bid to end exclusionary zoning has a website, which includes this galaxy brain take that allowing 4plexes would "Narrow living choices inside the city limits by removing the possibility for people to live in moderate-density predominantly SF neighs"

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

LA is committing to a rezone for 220,000 new units through its housing element! That is a *massive* commitment

Chris Elmendorf

@CSElmendorf

3 years

And whereas San Diego's ludicrous assumptions allowed it to claim that it has no need to rezone in order to accommodate its share of regional housing need, LA promises a massive rezoning program. 12/n

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Cities, if you don’t like what ceqa is doing to housing, take it off the table by going fully ministerial/by right. CEQA only applies to discretionary approval processes. You have the power to do this today.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

The biggest (imo) strategy is to do away with density-based restrictions and regulate everything with floor area ratio (FAR). In so doing, they will allow for at least an FAR of 1.0 (think fourplex) everywhere in the city. This is an absolute gamechanger. (3/9)

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Ministerial approval means that if a project meets all of the objective standards laid out in zoning, there is no discretion on the part of a decision-making body to say no. Since the decision is not discretionary, the project is exempt from CEQA. Details:

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

ADU permits up 123% in the City of Sacramento in 2021. Up to 170. Small potatoes compared to LA and other markets, but I see no reason why this wouldn't keep rising.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Parking minimums, which drive up the cost of housing and prioritize homes for cars over homes for people, were already reduced a few years ago. Tonight the council acted to move forward with eliminating them altogether and pursuing parking MAXIMUMS in some areas. (4/9)

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Lol hold up, Gavin has a political advisor named Randy Economy

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Who are these tweets to? Like 70% of ca residents think effects of climate change are already happening. Your constituents want to know what you are going to do about it.

Gavin Newsom

@GavinNewsom

4 years

Climate change is real.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

10 months

There is no reason why this can’t be California if we had the policy courage

Stu Donovan

@StuartBDonovan

11 months

But the number of new dwellings being built in NZ has increased *three-fold* in just the last decade. So, only 10-years ago NZ was building houses at around the same miserly rate as the UK is now. How did NZ make such rapid progress? Two things stand out ...

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Never a good sign when you are allowing different housing types in different neighborhoods but the neighborhood boundaries look at lot like this map!

William Burg

@oldcityguardian

1 year

@DovKadin red & yellow="compact & connected" blue & green="transitional"

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

9 months

I understand concerns that missing middle reforms will direct growth to cheaper neighborhoods at risk of displacement, but time & time again, every indication is that under permissive and simple zoning, you will see the most change in high opp, high cost nbhds (this is good!)

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Got a text from by buddy this morning. East Sac nimbys out here doing a racism bc we are considering allowing buildings the same size as the mansions that already exist there. Good reminder that for these people, it’s always been about the people and not the buildings.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Statutory CEQA exemption for infill multifamily housing when

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

When Sacramento started it's general plan update, one of the key strategies adopted by council was to eliminate parking reqs. We are still moving forward with that through the "rethinking parking" work but thanks to AB 2097, most of the work is already done.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

These neighborhoods use zoning and discretionary review to push out POC and lower income households. We just fixed the discretionary process, now let's turn our attention to the zoning through the ongoing general plan and housing element updates!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

To be clear, this action only allows staff to proceed with a series of key strategies and a draft land use/transportation map. The final votes on the whole General Plan Update will be later this year, but this was a big hurdle that will start the environmental review. (2/9)

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Really awesome response from the public on this one too. 86% of the e-comments were in support, as were 80% of the formal letters (including support letters from HCD, SACOG, and House Sacramento). 71% of verbal comments were in support as well, including legend @ansellundberg

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

Wow I didn't realize they applied the ADU parking provisions to SB 9. So if you are within a half mile of a high quality transit corridor you can build a 0 parking duplex (or double duplex if you subdivide).

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Pretty cool 16 unit project on a 0.17-acre church parking lot in my neighborhood. 94 units/acre, small unit sizes (4 are ADUs under 720 sqft), 0 parking spaces.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Sac's proposed general plan is fantastic but it can be better. Here are all the parcels within 1/2 mile of candidate high frequency transit. All the red has a max FAR of 1.0, the lowest in the city and the lowest allowed by state law thanks to SB 478. These areas should higher!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

This would be a potent combination with the ministerial approval process that the City already put in place last year. So all that missing middle would be by right with no CEQA if it is zoning compliant.

Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Tonight, the City of Sac took a REALLY big step to streamline housing approvals. All multifamily infill housing projects up to 200 units that comply with zoning will now be ministerially approved at the staff level. No CEQA, no delays, just NIMBY-proof approvals in 60-90 days.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

11 months

Councilmember Maple has been THE driving force on council for the historic zoning reforms Sacramento just authorized last night. Thank you for your leadership!

Vice Mayor Caity Maple

@CaityMapleD5

11 months

“This is our time to be bold,” Maple said. “We already are a city that leads in a lot of ways throughout the state, and we’re doing that once again.”

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

Update

Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

Another one in oak park, this one on 4th Ave

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Some data showing the relationships between vacancy rates and rent in 2020. Nice work @robnock_

Igor Popov

@IAPopov

4 years

Excited to get the full dataset live, alongside city-specific charts. Check it out here:

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

The City is also pursuing road diets across the city to prioritize transit/bike/ped over automobiles and support low carbon transportation options/safety. (5/9)

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

State leg idea: standardize local land use designations so words like low/med/high mean the same thing. Like I'm in a master plan outside of Yuba City and medium-high density has a max of 36 units/acre. Hop over to Rocklin and medium-high maxes out at 15 units/ac. It's maddening.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

It's my first meeting on the planning commission tonight and Sacramento is looking at some powerful stuff this year: Update to general plan to open up single family areas, a citywide rezone, missing middle design standards, reforming parking reqs, and more!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

@Scott_Wiener ‘s closing comments reminded me why he’s a generational politician. Incredible passion and clarity reminding the natural resources committee about the existential threat they ostensibly are there to do something about: climate change fueled by a housing shortage.

Louis Mirante (on threads @louismirante)

@louismirante

1 year

The Assembly Natural Resources Committee’s decision to move SB 423 (Wiener) forward despite the Coastal Commission’s desire for an exemption from the bill was a historic decision by the Assembly to END the Era of No. Monumental

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

It’s wild how far the Overton window has moved on the intersection of race and exclusionary zoning in the last ~4 years. This is head of ca housing! Basically saying 70% of residentially zoned land in the state is perpetuating racial inequality!

Louis Mirante (on threads @louismirante)

@louismirante

3 years

“Single family zoning today has replaced race-based zoning from the recent past,” @California_HCD Director @GVelasquez72 . Glad to see HCD understands the racist implications of single family zoning. Said during their affirmatively furthering fair housing training today 👏👏👏

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@DovKadin

2 years

This is a huge loss for Sacramento. I helped write the first permits that brought free floating car share to the Bay Area before Sac and it’s unequivocally a positive for folks who don’t want to or can’t afford to own a car. I’ve come to rely on it and am sad to see it go.

David Weiskopf

@daveregrets

2 years

RIP @GIGCarShare Sacramento

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

There was a lot of community support for this item (62% of ecomments, 83% of callers). It's far from a done deal, but this is a very promising start to what would be, for my money, a top 5 most progressive general plan in the nation. (9/9)

Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

Just did the final tally: 72 support, 40 oppose, 5 neutral. That's 62% support!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

1 year

The City of Sacramento just released the latest iteration of analysis related to its bid to open up single family neighborhoods to missing middle housing. This one is called the Attainability and Livability analysis and it's 190 (pretty) pages.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

👀👀👀

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

5 years

Another fourplex banger. Legalize it everywhere please!

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

3 years

If we are serious about climate change, affordability, and equity we are going to need a lot more projects like this that redevelop single family homes into apartments.

Urbanize LA

@UrbanizeLA

3 years

. @carmelpartners is planning to redevelop 16 single-family homes next to Expo/Bundy Station with two buildings featuring 455 apartments

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

4 years

210 units/600 beds proposed on Newman Catholic Center site. 110 units/acre in high opportunity East Sac neighborhood next to Sac State. Yes in God's Backyard.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

11 months

Completely reasonable take to me. How buildings feel is very subjective. We shouldn’t be in the business of mandating perceived preferences when people have different preferences. Especially when the preferences of some are prioritized over the NEEDS of others.

Spokane Rising

@spokanerising

11 months

“Breaking up the massing” makes buildings look worse.

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Dov Kadin

@DovKadin

2 years

This proposed project in the Sac central city should be allowed in all infill residential areas. It's a fourplex + two 300sqft ADUs. Fourplex has two 520 sqft 1bds and two 832 sqft 2bds. 86 units/acre, 0.65 FAR, 60% lot coverage, 0 parking spaces. Love to see it!

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